Banco do Brasil SA

BOVESPA:BBAS3

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q1

[Janaína Storti, executive]

[Foreign Language] Good morning, everyone. I am Janaína Storti, Head of Investor Relations of Banco do Brasil. Welcome to our live streaming on the results of the first quarter of 2023.

Our event is in Portuguese with simultaneous translation into English. [Operator Instructions] To start, our CEO, Tarciana Gomes Medeiros; and Geovanne da Silva, our CFO, will present the results of our performance. And at the end, we will have a Q&A session. We would like to remind the analysts that questions can only be asked using the webcast link.

Also here with us today is our VP for Internal Control and Risk Management, Felipe Prince. I will now turn the floor to our CEO, Tarciana, to begin the presentation.

[Tarciana Gomes Medeiros, executive]

Good morning, everyone. I would like to thank the presence of analysts and shareholders during this streaming to talk about our management performance in the first quarter of 2023. The profit of BRL 8.5 billion accounts for a growth of 28.9% when compared to the same period of last year. This performance shows our commitment to sustainable business generation and the efficiency in running the company. The result that we presented was based on the growth of quality credit and the acceleration of our digital transformation. With these two lines of action, we want to increasingly evolve in the delivery of Banco do Brasil for each client, always supported by the disciplined execution of our strategic planning.

Our loan portfolio grew in a qualified way and exceeded the BRL 1 trillion mark for individuals, corporations, family farming, agribusiness and also for governments. We posted significant performance in all segments, and we will continue to grow as indicated in our guidance. Digital transformation and analytical intelligence allow us to be more assertive in the credit offer. At Banco do Brasil credit quality and digital transformation have drivers to ensure that both are even closer and more aligned to promote new businesses and enable a long-term relationship with our clients.

The use of digital tools is becoming more and more pervasive in our organization. We believe that in order to be increasingly digital, we have to go beyond what we already do very successful, which is to be where our clients are. This is critical for BB's competitiveness and for the satisfaction of our customers. But we want a lot more, and we will not stop there.

We want digital to be the main driver for improving our organizational culture and the strategic decisions we make. This means having a bank in which the use of data and analytical intelligence are capable of personalizing the relationship with clients. My mantra is, to have a BB for every client. We work with hyperpersonalization to deliver solutions that maximize our clients' success. Knowing our clientele is a lesson that I have carried with me since my days as a farmers market seller. And here at the bank, we have the ability to get to know each of our millions of clients in order to perform in a relevant and close manner with excellence in relationship, and I value this very much.

The employees of Banco do Brasil carry in their DNA, the granting of credit as a means of stimulating the country's development and improving people's lives. In every region of this country, Brazilians know they can count on one of our employees to offer them the best financial solution. This large team of 85,000 people works in an organizational environment where the values of the digital world, such as agility, readiness and assertiveness have gained ground. Additionally, the use of analytical intelligence has been important to our success to expand our loan portfolio by 16.8% in 12 months.

Our NPL level is in line with our expectations and below the average of the national financial system. I strongly believe that one of the greatest assets of any business is the efficient use of data, and it couldn't be different in the financial system. For Banco do Brasil, this is a reality.

The transformation that takes place every day in our company makes Banco do Brasil increasingly innovative. For us, the physical and the digital are complementary and coexist for the benefit of the client. We do not let go of human close and personalized contact. My legacy will be the transformation of this immense amount of data we have into an exponential capacity to offer personalized solutions to clients whatever and whenever they need us.

BB holds an outstanding position and has all the necessary conditions to grow even more because it is a bank with a strong connection to the Brazilian economy. We have a technological infrastructure. The process is an average of 16 billion financial transactions a day, allowing us to obtain data from the most diverse segments of our society, consolidating our leadership position in data processing in the financial system. This gives us unique information about the behavior of Brazilians.

A curious comparison that draws to your attention is that in the same 9.58 seconds that using both, set the world record for the 100-meter relay. Banco do Brasil processes 4,000 PIX, setting a record in the financial system. We are agile, modern and digital.

In the first quarter of this year alone, we totaled BRL 705 billion in PIX transactions, up 52% compared to the first quarter of 2022. Millions of Brazilian use the bank to send money via PIX. And each one of these transactions adds more data to our analytical models. All these operations and the number of financial transactions allow us to capture $500 million pieces of data from clients and nonclients. This enables us to provide more than 110 million personalized offers on products and services.

With all this information, we can pinpoint areas of the country where consumption is higher and where the Brazilian economy is more dynamic. We are able to identify behaviors with a higher profitability of consuming our products. And also analyze people's payment capacity with greater precision.

In summary, the biggest winners are our clients who have financial products and services that are more in line with their consumption profile, thus generating more sustainable businesses. By the way, I will bring here more numbers that confirm our commitment to the financial sustainability of our clients. We enable new businesses through artificial intelligence solutions, such as Minhas Finanças, a solution available in our app that provides financial education to our clients. Since its launch, Minhas Finanças has already reached more than 4 million unique users and offered 1,400,000 financial plans with the use of artificial intelligence to provide our clients with a more prosperous financial life.

What I showed a while ago shows how our employees use all this data capture and analytical intelligence to ensure that these assets are at the service of the country's development and of improving people's lives. This is the art that we perform every day here at the bank, and that's what makes us unique in the financial system because we are able to combine our commercial performance with our public function. We know very well how to be a unique bank with its own way of doing things.

We give adequate returns to our shareholders and seek to meet society's expectations in the construction of a country that needs to create the necessary conditions for improving people's quality of life. This commitment is very clear when we see that we maintain our leadership in payroll loans in the first quarter of 2023, increasing the number of people served by this line, it was a 40% growth, totaling 700,000 clients served.

In this first quarter, we disbursed BRL 3.1 billion in payroll loans to beneficiaries of the INSS, which means a 79% increase when compared to the same period of last year. At Pronampe we disbursed BRL 4.3 billion to small farmers, up 38% compared to the first quarter of 2022. There were more than 60,000 transactions, representing an increase of 23%. Currently, 68% of BB's rural transactions are related to family agriculture.

I want to highlight that we work closely with the small farmers in all the agribusiness segments, both inside and outside the farm gate. Agribusiness is and will always be strategic for Banco do Brasil. Therefore, we reaffirm our commitment to stand by the Brazilian rural grower in all sizes and in all regions of the country. We are leaders in the segment of the economy, and we want to be even more relevant.

The numbers show the importance we give to our partnership with agribusiness. In the current crop season, we have already disbursed more than BRL 148 billion, a 30% growth over the previous crop year. In terms of our support to micro, small and medium-sized companies, we grew 24.2% in only 1 year, reaching a total portfolio balance of BRL 114.8 billion, supporting more than 135,000 companies in this segment. Through Pronampe alone, we disbursed BRL 2.4 billion in the first quarter of this year.

The segment of the economy is essential to maintain and create jobs. But this is not the only reason why we are supporting the segment. We also support it because the lines of prepayment of receivables and working capital are profitable for us and we are committed to lending with a rigorous approach -- to lend with a rigorous approach in our risk and credit analysis, being close to small farmers, individuals and micro and small companies also makes perfect sense to us.

Also, when we think about the production -- productive chain that we support. Our model supports clients in a very broad sense. We have also expanded our support and funding to large infrastructure projects and their value chains, especially those with ESG attributes, reaffirming our status as a relationship bank for large corporations as well. In the sense, we work at all stages of the value chain in various sectors of the economy.

For example, we finance the small farmer who produces milk, and this input will go to the dairy industry to which we will offer a credit line and solutions in capital markets. We also understand the commercial relationship between the various players in the chain as a possibility for new business and for promoting productive activity. We are able to finance such different and wide-ranging sectors of the economy because we have a very strong capital structure sustained by the adequate return and quality of the funds we lend.

A fundamental attribute adds to all our performance in favor of the country. It is worth mentioning that BB's performance generated BRL 21 billion of return to society in the first quarter of this year in the form of dividends, tax payments, payments to suppliers and payment of salaries, among others. Besides the direct return of its performance. BB is increasingly present in themes related to the ESG agenda. Our sustainable business portfolio reached BRL 328 billion in Q1, up 13% over the same period last year. We have also encouraged female entrepreneurship, Banco do Brasil increased by 36% the volume of disbursements to companies led by women in this first quarter. Internally in BB, the cause of diversity, equity and inclusion is gaining more and more space with concrete measures. For the first time in our history, we have four women in our Board of Directors.

In a totality -- in a totally equal relationship, the Board of officers also has 4 women in its composition. Almost half of the members of this collegiate body and of these two are self-declared members of the LGBTQIAPN+ Group. In addition, we created the Strategic Committee of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. And here, I highlight the importance of this measure due to its strategic position in the company's governance.

This committee will have the same level of deliberations and hierarchy as other committees that are essential for the bank's performance such as the credit risk and capital committees. I also emphasize that the number of jobs for people with disabilities was increased to 825 in our last public examination to be admitted at the bank.

In this final part of my speech. I emphasize that Banco do Brasil's profit will be proportional to our ability to create business. As our guidance indicates, we will continue growing in 2023. We want to continue to post sustainable levels of profitability adequately remunerating the trust of our shareholders. With a strong bank, we will also create value for society as a whole, granting quality of credit to the various sectors of the Brazilian economy and offering excellent service to our customers.

We reaffirm the willingness of Banco do Brasil to trust in the company's economy and to believe in the capacity of Brazilians. BB will continue supporting the economic and social development of our society with financial solutions that materialize in a more promising reality for our country. Thank you very much.

I now turn the floor to our CFO, Geovanne.

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

We apologize, but we are not getting the sound. Please hold, we are not getting the sound to translate.

Good morning, one and all, thank you. Let me start by bringing on the highlights of Q1 '23 results. Our numbers show a very robust operating performance. Undoubtedly, in the year-on-year comparison, which mitigates seasonality effect, we can see that growth of NII and revenue from services fee income more than offset the increase in administrative expenses and ALLL expanded view. With this, we posted income of BRL 8.5 billion and a return on equity of 21%.

The loan portfolio expanded view improved 16.8%. And the next slide, please, in comparison to March 2022, a positive performance in all segments. The individuals portfolio grew 11.7% in 1 year. And I would like to call your attention to the volume of operations to this segment. And I draw your attention even more to payroll loans that totaled BRL 118.6 billion, corresponding to 40% of the individuals portfolio. BB is the leader in this market with a 20% share.

The Agribusiness portfolio was definitely a highlight in this quarter, BRL 322.5 billion, up 4.1% quarter-on-quarter and up 26.7% year-on-year, reflecting BB's leading presence with all the clients in this chain. This allowed us to recover our market share. The proceeds to go to sustainable agriculture represent almost half of this portfolio.

The micro, small and medium-sized enterprises portfolio reached BRL 114.8 billion, growing 24.2% in 12 months. And here, the highlight goes to Pronampe operations, as Tarci mentioned. Loans to large corporate totaled BRL 195 billion, an annual growth of 11.2%, with a highlight going to private securities and guarantees, which rose 14.6% in 12 months.

Moving to the next slide, please. Here, we have our ALLL expanded view. It was down 10.4%, quarter-on-quarter. However, there is one specific case in the last quarter that explains this change. But compared with the same period of last year, it showed strong growth the result of the growth of our portfolio. And yes, there was an increase in the volume of provisions respecting the quality of our portfolio.

I would also like to talk about the provisioning in this quarter, the variations in the ALLL expenses, credit risk and impairment were affected by one specific case, and it is important to stress that there was no positive or negative impact on the result linked to this negotiation. That happened and that led to a restructuring of the debt that was a credit and became a private security. Because of this rearrangement, there was this change and this is an operation that was totally provisioned for. And the court-supervised reorganization was approved back in 2019.

All right. Now. Let's look at credit recovery. I draw your attention to the volume of credit recovery, BRL 1.9 billion when compared quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year. It becomes clear that we need to tighten things a little more and advance during the year in recovery to help us maintain the risk of our portfolio.

Moving to the next slide, please. We would like to mention -- we'd like to talk about credit quality. We see the delinquency rates at Banco do Brasil has been increasing ending March 2023 at 2.62%. Quarter-on-quarter, it is kind of flat, but there was increase compared to March 2022 linked to the scenario that we are living with a worsening of risk overall. But I would like to highlight that the credit quality of the portfolio is above the Brazilian financial system.

And I would like to draw your attention to our credit risk, which is below the Brazilian financial system given the mix of our portfolio. We continue to grow the individuals portfolio, agribusiness portfolio, corporates. Agribusiness practically on the right upper side of the slide, has remained stable. However, we see an increase in individual -- in companies' delinquency, given the closing of capital markets to companies refinancing with private securities. And in the individual segment, we believe that we have achieved the worst part of the -- worsening of the portfolio. We continue to present a coverage ratio superior to the system.

The coverage ratio stood at 202.7%. And looking at the new NPL, we believe that there is a small impact. The results of that specific case that I spoke about earlier. But if we look at the coverage of new NPL with provisions, it would be around 87%. We had BRL 7.4 billion with a new NPL in Q1 2023.

Now moving to the next slide. We'll speak a little about net interest income, NII. It ended Q1 '23 with BRL 21.2 billion, a rise of 38% compared to first quarter '22. Compared to Q4 '22, we remained practically flat. A natural irritation to the growth in Q1 because it results basically from a funding strategy that privileged the growth of time deposits to help us fund the growth of our credit portfolio.

Credit operation revenues highlight. We can see here 35% increase in the last 12 months and 2.4% in the last quarter. This by virtue of the agribusiness and individual loans and SME loans. The growth of our funding expenses is 52% is the result of the current scenario with the increase in interest rates, the cost of money, cost of capital.

Our treasury results draw attention, it is to be highlighted. It reflects our change in the mix of our funding, privileging some types of funding lines to fund the expansion of our loan book. Funding expenses also reflagged the interest rates of the country.

Now moving to the next slide, talking a little bit about the other components of our results. We maintained proximity with our clients. We -- fee income grew just over 8% in relation to Q1 '22 totaling BRL 8.1 billion and net of the seasonal effect compared to Q4, there was a slight decrease, but that is linked to seasonality.

And I would like to highlight administrative expenses. We were able to maintain effective control over our administrative expenses. Personnel expenses followed salary adjustments given to the category of our workers last year. But other administrative expenses were very much under control. Even lower than in Q4 and slightly higher than the same period last year. All of that led Banco do Brasil to achieve the best cost-to-income ratio in our historical series, reaching 29%.

On the next slide, we present the common equity Tier 1, robust result. It allowed us to remain -- well, our robust results allowed us to keep common equity Tier 1 stable compared to December 2022, despite increase in our loan portfolio and the loan book increase. We believe that our Basel ratio of 16.9% gives us comfort to continue to support our relentless execution of our strategy of being close to our customers, creating sustainable results and to continue to help Brazilians realize their dreams by financing all sectors of our nation.

Well, then I would like to end the presentation talking a little about our guidance. You can clearly see that well, we are still at the very beginning. But we keep to the commitment of executing our strategy of delivering our guidance of 2023. Individual loan portfolio growing, we have organic growth and some acquisition of portfolio which allowed us to be at the top of the range. Companies who grew above the range, but the trend is that it will be between 7% and 11% growth for 2023. The focus here is a greater expansion in SMEs and agribusiness was definitely a growth highlight above the range. It is an industry that has been increasing competitiveness a lot.

Banco do Brazil, there's a lot more competition, but Banco do Brasil is taking initiatives to recover our market share. We are leaders, but we want to recover our market share and post growth above the guidance. But during the year, we believe that we will be within the range.

NII was still too early to look at this and compare it, but the trend is. By virtue of seasonality and change in the mix of funding that we had along 2022 compared to Q1 2022. When we did not have this new strategy. Well, it gave us a result way above the range, but during the year, it will be between 17% and 21%.

ALLL expanded view, we are hitting the risk of credit. We have a challenge of increasing credit recovery and diligently controlling portfolio risk. We grew a lot in the less risky lines and that explains our new P&L that is lower with less need of provisioning.

Fee income performed in line with the guidance, administrative expenses as well and net income with annualization, we are in the middle of the range. So confirming the guidance for 2023 based on what we've seen in Q1.

I'd like to thank you for your attention, and I'd like to open the floor to questions. Thank you very much.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

[Operator Instructions] First question from Bernardo Guttmann with XP.

[Bernardo Guttmann, analyst]

Congratulations on the results. Actually, I have two questions. The first about the guidance. You are at the top of the range in the main metrics as Geovanne mentioned. And in that regard, does it make sense, first, to expect an upward revision of the guidance because historically numbers in Q2 and Q4 tend to be stronger or maintaining the guidance should mean an indication that you're expecting a possible slowdown looking forward?

And second question, if possible, to CEO Tarciana, you completed 100 days in office. Currently, the bank is in a privileged position in different metrics, such as portfolio quality, control of delinquency, capital level that is deleveraged and very comfortable. And that translates into a very high ROE with record marks. But historically, there was always a concern by investors regarding political interference at the bank.

So to that end, if -- we would appreciate if the CEO could tell us about governance and how the institution is advancing in that agenda because there are demands from the new government and differentiated risk execution that this management has achieved in recent quarters. Those are my questions.

[Tarciana Gomes Medeiros, executive]

Well, thank you very much for your question. I will start answering the second question. Regarding governance of Banco do Brasil. We have a strong governance structure with decisions that are taken in a collegiate manner. There is no pressure on the bank to -- with business lines that will not bring adequate results for the business.

Recently, just earlier in the press conference, I spoke about this. We do not see any room to operate with a credit policy that is not technical or with credit policies, that would not fit Banco do Brasil's credit policies. So we are very confident that we have autonomy in managing Banco do Brasil. We will definitely take this forward. Always developing business and granting loans, taking into account our governance structure in our decision-making and developing products that will bring us adequate return with a fair counterpart based on our technical analysis and supported by them.

So if I can answer the question about the guidance, Bernardo, thank you for the question. We like to be conservative. It is important to say that undoubtedly, we are relentless in a disciplined execution of our strategy. But also we have the knowledge and we know how the environment still requires caution and prudence. We're a bank. We are responsible for capital allocation. Capital that is trusted by our shareholders to us, we have robust evaluation tools for our portfolio.

We know that particularly in large corporates in the -- with the private securities market practically closed and with the large corporates using mechanisms of funding using private securities, so we have to be attentive to that. Undoubtedly, agribusiness is a market that we expect to be present with the share that Banco do Brasil deserves in that business. But like I said, in terms of recovery, we need to broaden our efforts even further in our network so that we can increase credit recovery. Like I said, we have to be diligent, regarding ALLL. But when we look at the mix of our portfolio we still have a large concentration, a large share of payroll loans, which is an individual loan category that has guarantees. It's much lower risk. If we look at this performance.

We even have this data. We grew our share of AA from 14.8% to 19.2% in the individuals portfolio, 16.6% to 23.2%. In other words, we have less provisions because we have this mix. However, we have to pay attention. Why aren't we making adjustments to the guidance? No problem if we have to adjust the guidance upward or downward, but it is still too early to talk about a guidance that we have just communicated to the market. And again, it reflects our strategy, and this is what we're going to pursue.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Our next question is from Rafael Frade from Citi.

[Rafael Berger Frade, analyst]

On the results side, I see a very strong performance on the revenue line. And I think Geovanne already talked a little bit about it, but I would like to focus on the provision expenses. You talked about the recovery a few times and that you still see room for further improvement in terms of recovery of write-offs. But I would just like to understand a little bit more about the quality of the portfolio.

All of the lines presented a slight worsening in NPL formation. Maybe related to credit expectations in general. But I think that even if we have minor worsening in this NPL formation, it's probably hard to see that you will not over -- you would not go above the guidance. I would like to understand why you had that worsening and Geovanne also mentioned about the changes in the portfolio mix that came as a surprise to me because I saw major changes in the AA that was very fast from 1 quarter to the next. So we see some worsening on the NPL formation.

So can you explain how come you have this improvement on recovery of write-offs and while at the same time, you had a worsening in NPL formation?

[Felipe Guimaraes Prince, executive]

Well, Rafael, this is Felipe Prince. Thank you for your question. First of all, there was not a generalized worsening in the lines or a slight worsening as we've been reporting before, since the middle of last year, we had applied a route correction in the granting models of loans to individuals. This proved to be very assertive. And why am I speaking about assertiveness because we managed to control credit granting to clients in more risky lines and with the discipline of Tarciana's execution, she often says that we were able to expand our credit granting to clients with a better risk profile. Thus, you can notice that as we've been saying as well, we reached the peak of delinquency of individuals in December.

We also delivered some reductions in the NPL levels of individuals in this first quarter. And it is precisely this dynamic of transformation of this individual's loan portfolio that is reflected in the indicators you mentioned. So first of all, you have to mitigate the effect of that specific case where we migrate to ALLL to impairment in the coverage of this new delinquency.

So if you add these amounts, once again, the amounts that were migrated our coverage is equivalent to what we've been presenting in previous quarters. So that's where we see 52, which, in fact, would be 87. Therefore, this is very much in line with the risk profile of our portfolio.

And the migration, as Geovanne said it himself, is predominantly linked to new originations and risk profile of these clients. Here, we put great emphasis on payroll loans as our CEO, Tarciana said, we've been very aggressive also in terms of granting loans to INSS pension holders, and this has strengthened our portfolio, which is now at much better risk levels when compared to those of 2022 when in the first half, we incorporated that famous open sea vintage, a bit more risky, but all of the models have been already adjusted and they are performing quite well. Therefore, we understand that this was reflected in the numbers of individuals NPL for 2023.

And if I could add, we are just going back to the basics. We know how to grant loans to our bank account holders very well. And also, we are very strong in payroll loans and payroll loans to INSS pension holders. And just like with other banks, everybody suffered and struggled with delinquency in this line, and this has aggravated our provisions. And not only ours, but everybody else's. And we believe that throughout the year, this will be diluted, and we will be able to overcome that fact.

In addition to that, you talked about collections. Yes, we see provisions going towards the top of the guidance, collection performance was a bit worse in the first quarter and especially in terms of receivables through cash, we already adjusted this strategy for the second quarter. Therefore, what we anticipate is that this will converge to a level close to the top of the credit risk in general. But we also have the necessary tools to control that.

[Rafael Berger Frade, analyst]

Perfect. If you allow me another follow-up in relation to your credit book your formation, NPL formation in individuals was slightly up and large corporate was also slightly up. Is this like a one-off situation? Do you see that as a trend? Or you believe that this will be maintained and then we will probably see improvements throughout the year.

[Felipe Guimaraes Prince, executive]

In terms of individuals, this is a one-off situation. It is right in the convergence of the curves between past originations and new originations. Well, on the corporate side, the pressure is a bit higher because with this current level of interest rates, we have an additional pressure to the cash flow of companies, and this is translated into their payment capacity.

In agribusiness, we are in between crop season. So naturally, in the initial months of the year, we see some delinquency pressure, but we are just talking about the lowest NPL indicator if you look back in our historical series. Therefore, I can say that this is a one-off situation.

In terms of trend, it's very much under control and less severe in terms of what the market is delivering. And we attribute that to our capacity to operate in a regional matter, in productive chains and also in segments that are linked to the agribusiness chain. Therefore, we see that there is a slight tilt on the corporate side, but nothing that points to any deterioration.

On the contrary, it's part of the business. And we also see normal -- normalization of the KPIs. They used to be very low since the pandemic period, and now we see in our portfolio, a corporate NPL that is normalized. And as I said, we have a very well-defined strategy to maintain things under control.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Our next question comes from Mario Pierry from Bank of America.

[Mario Pierry, analyst]

Congratulations on your results. My question is on your NII. Most part of this NII comes from treasury and treasury is benefiting from increase in interest rates. Now when we look at the margin as a whole, treasury accounts for almost 50%. And historically, that number was close to 20%. How can you protect that NII in a landscape when interest rates are falling.

When we look at client NII, it's growing alongside with credit. Is there any room for repricing the portfolios. I mean, considering a landscape in Brazil, when we see a tightening in credit, how do you see the pricing of your products?

[Unknown Executive]

Well, certainly -- we certainly have this concern, and we are already assessing the possible impacts to our NII once we start a new cycle starting in the second half of the year when the Central Bank starts reducing interest rates. The fact is that for us, this reduction in interest rates will help us in the funding cost because we have a passive exposure post PIX. So this will immediately favor the bank. And we also believe that -- as this interest rate begins to come down, there will be repricing.

Therefore, looking at what is happening now, there was a repricing on the asset and credit sides at higher rates, if you look at the rates in the first quarter of 2022 versus '23. This really explains the increase on our revenue on the credit size. And however, this also impacts funding costs, but we were able to improve the mix of our funding. And when compared to other banks, we have a picture of funding coming from savings accounts. As for deposits and in other areas where we adopted some very specific approaches, and this allowed us to strengthen that NII.

But looking forward reductions in interest rates will have an immediate effect, positive effect for us because this will reduce our funding costs immediately. On the other hand, this will allow for repricing of the portfolios and also new agreements. But for the time being, this has been very positive to us.

I think that when we look towards the future, this would be neutral for the margin for the NII.

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

So now -- Geovanne -- the idea is that you should be able to maintain your -- a stable NII regardless of the interest rate scenario. Throughout the year, we expect to be right within the guidance line. When you compare to the same period of the year before, you have that strategy that I mentioned, but we want to maintain it. And now we are already adopting other measures to be prepared within the ALM logic to a new scenario of lower interest rates. But we don't think there will be a hard lending. It will be a soft lending as the monetary authority starts reducing this rate, the Banco do Brasil will be able to adapt the mix of its assets and liabilities in order to preserve the margin and also the result.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Next question by Daniel Vaz with Credit Suisse.

[Daniel Vaz, analyst]

Congratulations on the results. I'd like to -- got my question to what the previous management said that the value perception of Banco do Brasil was a little deteriorated when we look at valuation multiples, particularly in terms of price or earnings. We saw the bank very discounted from the valuation that they considered to be fair. Is this also the opinion of the current management, Tarciana and Geovanne's?

What are the measures that you intend to adopt to increase the valuation to a potential re-rating. And think about what Geovanne mentioned, adopting credit measures to grow the portfolio with quality and responsibility. Where do you see that you are below your fair share, considering the market share of all products thinking about what could be the focus. We saw INSS growing a lot. What could be other possibilities of growth?

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

Thank you very much for the question. I will start answering the question, by the very end. We understand that in some business lines, the bank is well-positioned to have a more adequate share, more adequate to our positioning. In payroll loans, we are leaders, but we believe that we have not gained the whole market share, a fair market share. Also in some business lines. Again, I highlight INSS loans. And also payroll and deductible loans in the private market. That's another area where Banco do Brasil has an opportunity to grow and gain market share.

Another business line is in auto loans, that is a line where the bank is operational, but not at the same level as other market players. So we understand this is another segment, loans for automobiles where we can seek a fair share for Banco do Brasil.

When we'll look at the agribusiness loans, we have room to regain market share. Market share that used to be ours. That used to be Banco do Brasil. And we have the right conditions to increase at least 10 percentage points and get 10 percentage points back in that segment. Given the volume of agribusiness, perhaps this will not come in 2023, at least not at the pace that we would like because it is a very big portfolio. But these are profitable business segments. These are safe business segments, and we knew that we have the right conditions to advance there.

And as regards to your first question, we undoubtedly, the market penalizes Banco do Brazil a lot. It punishes us. And there was -- I shouldn't say panic, but the market was perhaps using too heavy a hand to discount Banco do Brasil with the change of the administration of the country. But the truth is we are here, we are relentless. Executing the same corporate strategy that was defined and the execution is the best way to help the market recover trust in the bank.

We are a management team formed by current and former employees and executives of Banco do Brasil. We have a very bold agenda. To drive improvements, digitalization, innovation, trying to be closer and closer to our customers and relevant to our customers, trying to regain market share or gain market share in some other lines.

When I left the bank in 2010. I remember that one of the big pressures by the government was little exposure that Banco do Brasil had to individual loans which is what brings a small margin. And today, our credit portfolio is practically 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. In other words, we walked the talk in recent times. And still, the market continues to punish us.

I don't think it is related to operating performance of Banco do Brasil or ability of our management to execute the strategies. But due to other reasons, that we are not going to discuss here. But we will continue tirelessly, looking for ways to bring adequate returns to all our shareholders. We believe that return on equity of 21% does not justify the price that the market is paying for Banco do Brasil.

[Daniel Vaz, analyst]

If I can go back to Tarciana's answer. I only heard about fair market share for individuals and thinking about corporate. The corporate segment and the companies. Do you think your fair share -- that you're below your fair share? Can you expand this market? Or will you be focusing on individuals only?

[Felipe Guimaraes Prince, executive]

Daniel, first, I think that we have to underscore what Geovanne mentioned. The strength of our mix that we pursued on purpose and that we are delivering now 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. In the large corporate segment, our strategy was very well defined and linked to assisting our customers and origination for the distribution of operations in the capital markets, strengthening our JV with UBS. This strategy was being very successful.

We were [wise] leaders in several markets in 2022. However, there was one adverse event that ended up freezing these operations in Q1. Now dragging a little into Q2. Now of course, we try to maintain assistance to our clients. They request rollovers, they consume products and services. And we always try to serve our customers in a holistic way to serve their needs. So there is no appetite for us to change the mix as it is. There are some circumstances that will lead us to provide more assistance here and there, more localized, but always thinking in the future of distributing these securities in the capital markets.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Next question from Eduardo Rosman with BTG.

[Eduardo Rosman, analyst]

Congratulations on the results. I have two follow-up questions regarding things that Geovanne has mentioned in his last answer. And by the way, Geovanne, welcome back. So the first point is about ROE. I think that, well, 21% ROE is very strong. The capital has improved -- but it seems that the market prices that ROE will be dropping strongly in the coming years. So I'd like to know, is there any reason for that to happen? We don't think this is going to happen, but if you could give us some color on what the ROE could be for the coming years, it would be very useful. And you talked about something nice that in 2010, when you left the bank, the market wanted the Banco do Brazil to have more exposure to individuals. And now that you're back. What else do you think is interesting in terms of things that have changed, that improved all things that as an outsider, you could see that there was room for Banco do Brasil to deliver and improve?

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

All right. To answer your questions, undoubtedly, people wonder how is it possible that we are ending the results of the financial sector and in a leading position in terms of net income and profitability. And with a loan portfolio that is superior to other banks, if we look just at the Brazilian loan book. Comparing with Itaú when you within their international portfolio, then there are 100 million ahead of us. But undoubtedly, we have the calling to grant loans to all sectors, all lines. What is the difference? We have greater diversification.

If we look at the degree of concentration in the sector, we will continue to do that. But more and more, what we are trying to do is do more with less. So -- when I rejoined the bank, what drew my attention was the cost-to income ratio. It was unimaginable. It was a dream we had in 2010 to get to the cost-to-income ratio that we currently have at Banco do Brasil. And undoubtedly, a ratio of 29%, the very best in our history is just fantastic.

Expense control, which was another problem. People talked about the difficulty of Banco do Brasil in controlling our expenses. But we showed that, yes, we're capable of controlling expenses. Meanwhile continuing to play a role of providing financing for all sectors of the economy, helping the country grow.

There's another point to draw attention, and you talked about it, the results of our strategic partnerships. It is true that BB, UBS, specifically what the market is closed for -- all banks are suffering, including investment banks, but we've posted fantastic growth in insurance, which was the Achilles tendon of the bank in the past. We grew significantly our partnership with [ Elo ], if you look at the equity income result, you can see it. So we have a robust structure to generate results in financial intermediation, in fee income and we are not the most expensive bank. We are not just a bank that charges fees all the time from customers.

What is interesting to us is to be close to our customers, be relevant to them, increasing engagement with them, building loyalty from our customers. So today, after 12 years being away from Banco do Brasil I see a different company. If back then, I was not ashamed of being a Banco do Brasil officer. Today, I'm even more proud.

The market has to stop with that nonsense. The market needs to know how to differentiate political issues, governance, from governance and from business topics. Banco do Brasil, half of its capital belongs to the controlling shareholder, the federal government of Brazil. The rest is in the hands of the market. It's free float. This is the best private public partnership, there is as long as it is well-managed and as long as it is efficient. And we are proving that yes, we are capable of managing efficiently, delivering value to shareholders and society.

This is what gives us a purpose. This is what makes our hearts beat more strongly. Well, it's -- people say that the market is heartless. I think that the market should recognize that the heart of Banco do Brasil is beating strong. Shall we move on? Rosman, do you have any follow-up questions?

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Our next question comes from Juan Recalde from Scotiabank. Are you listening to us?

[Unknown Executive]

You're in mute mode. Well -- you're mute.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

No, we are not listening to you.

[Juan Recalde, analyst]

Okay. Perfect. Sorry about that. My question is related to the cost-to-income ratio, the efficiency ratio. We have seen very strong levels as you have previously mentioned. So I'm wondering, looking forward, what do you think can be a more sustainable level -- is it going to be similar to what we are seeing now? Or can we expect it to be slightly higher? How should we think about this going forward?

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

Certainly, this is an efficiency level. I mean, this cost-to-income ratio makes us very proud, but it's also important to bear in mind that this year, as part of our strategy to expedite the digital side, we already accommodated in our budget to make further investments and have further expenses to update our technological hub. And that's why we can expect an increase in our admin expenses around 8% or 9%, which will be close to our range of 7% to 9%. And this certainly will lead this cost-to-income ratio to be slightly lower, but we will always struggle to be or fight to be one of the most competitive banks when compared to our peers. We believe that being close to high 20s and low 30s would be perfectly acceptable for Banco do Brasil.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Our next question is from Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs.

[Daer Labarta, analyst]

My question, following up, I guess, on Rosman's question about ROE for the bank and also like on the value for the bank. If you can help us think a little bit how you think about the long-term profitability for Banco do Brasil? And I say that within the context of the banking system, as well. I think several moving things the government has said about using public sector banks to support the economy, to some extent, if that were to happen, what potential impact could that have on profitability? And from the other perspective, we're seeing Fintechs and digital banks have grown a lot over the last 10 years and gaining share. How do you see the impact of this sort of new competitive environment and what potential impact that can have on profitability for the bank longer term?

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

What I believe, Tito, is that, I mean, we do not release guidance on return on equity. But we believe that Banco do Brasil is perfectly capable of delivering high 10s and low 20s in this ROE range. While we remain very disciplined in controlling our cost, protecting our portfolio, growing loans with quality and also improving the hyperpersonalization mechanisms in terms of our offers to our clients increasing their wallet of doing business with us. While we do all that, we will be able to protect the results of Banco do Brasil.

And much has been said about public policies. Banco do Brasil has been doing that for a long time because this is part of our core business and of our strategy. We are constantly lending to the different sectors of the economy and lend to our clients because we are here to serve the needs of our clients. And that's why we need as long as we have capital and with a good funding base and as long as we are competitive, we will continue to fulfill our role, which is our vocation.

Now in relation to the competitive environment, there are certainly regulatory issues involved, and we are very attentive to them. One example is the compliance to Basel III commercial practices and the Central Bank itself has already decided to postpone for another year. The requirement of capital used for operating risk because this would impact the entire industry. And certainly, this could be a burden, not -- no longer for 2024, but maybe for 2026 as there will certainly be more capital use from the banks to comply with this new methodology of calculation of operating risk within the scope of BIS III.

Another issue has to do with the competition from the newcomers or new banks. And certainly, I think that the trend is towards a convergence or accommodation of the rules for all players involved. These are organizations that impact means of payment and credit cards, but Banco do Brasil has adopted very specific strategies to protect its market share and probably even to grow in certain business lines, that in the past, we were not very present or very active.

And as an example, I would like to mention our investments in technology. And those investments will allow us to be more agile, more digital. And with that, we've managed to at least protect our base vis-a-vis the new entrants. I don't know Tarciana, whether you would like to add anything else.

[Tarciana Gomes Medeiros, executive]

So basically, Tito, we believe that as the landscape improves, and interest rates come down. We will see then a more benign scenario to resume growth in the country and the banks will be able to surf that wave with a lower risk level in terms of -- also in terms of capital use regarding the new BIS III changes. And one example is PIX that Tarciana mentioned. I think we are the largest processor of PIX transactions. They are saying in Brazil that from the lemon we can make a lemonade.

All the analysts were concerned with the impact of -- from tariffs for the banks with the introduction of PIX transactions, but we turn that quickly into an opportunity to generate revenues for the bank. Would you like to add anything, Prince?

[Felipe Guimaraes Prince, executive]

Well, very briefly, but I think you summarized it quite well. I would just like to say that we knew how to protect our base quite well. And now you should expect that we are ready to attack.

[Tarciana Gomes Medeiros, executive]

No comments to add. Thank you.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Next question from Pedro Leduc, Itaú.

[Pedro Leduc, analyst]

Congratulations on the results. I have two questions, actually. One, regarding treasury results. What's called inter-financial liquidity investments. It was BRL 16.5 billion in the last quarter, dropping to BRL 15 billion this quarter when we look at the balance of these operations. As a result had a decline in what you call treasury results. I'd like to understand why there was some volatility in this line, which ended up driving down NII. So these inter-financial liquidity operations hurt a bit. That's my first question.

And my second question has to do with services. Formidable performance in all lines, I'd like to hear from you regarding current accounts, increasing 5%, 6% year-on-year. Was there any readjustment? What is the dynamic that is sustaining this kind of growth?

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

Pedro, in terms of treasury, it's basically -- there's nothing worrisome there. Nothing to worry about. But what you're going to see is that in the quarterly comparisons, this will reflect basically rates, calendar days perhaps one specific funding operation. So there's nothing really there to worry us. We consider treasury results has been practically flat, other flat, I mean, although it did show a little decline.

Q1 is a lazier quarter. Everybody is on holidays, but nothing to worry about in our view, so rest assured.

[Unknown Executive]

I just want to make a comment on this, Geovanne. This reduction there we saw on liquidity, Pedro. It is very marginal and seasonal, Pedro. We understand that treasury should stabilize close to this level. As we have more liquidity flowing to credit. So you can see financial revenue with credit operations growing with the expansion of the loan book and with a different mix.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

And there was a question about the current accounts and services.

[Unknown Executive]

Well, one of the factors that have contributed to this is that we changed the strategy from 2022 to 2023. We changed the strategy of Conta Fácil which was an entry-level simplified checking account, and we moved it to full digital account. So the profile of customers, the digital profile of customers accessing the full checking account is a profile of customers that requires a more complete portfolio of products and services. So we have advanced in this entry door.

The current account is still an entry door to the bank. But now we have customers with a consumption profile that demand a more complete portfolio. So this is basically the change, a strategy from an easy checking account Conta Fácil to full digital account. Important to say that we didn't change the price. And it is more attractive value proposition without increasing the price. And with accuracy.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Next question from Nicolas Riva with Bank of America.

[Nicolas Riva, analyst]

So I want to ask on the perpetual bond. So last month, you called the [indiscernible] without any capital replacement, you didn't come to market at the time. And there is quite a negative environment in the market towards AT1s in general after what happened with Credit Suisse and the wipe out of the [ CHF 60 million ]. So next year, you have to decide, you still have two perpetual bonds outstanding in international market, the [ 6.25 and the 9s ], and have to make a decision on the call next year. It's within 2 months of each other. And in total, it's a very large amount in total, $4 billion or about 190 basis points of AT1.

So my question is, if for the [ 6.25 and the 9s ], you do believe that in order to call them, that you would need to replace a good amount of that, that you will need to come to market, either in the domestic or in the international market. And if there's a level -- a minimum level of AT1 capital that you would like to keep? And also, if you can remind us your capital target. I remember the target of at least 11% CET1 but if you can remind us about those targets, including if there is any target for Tier 1 and for total capital.

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

That was definitely my first task when I arrived here to how we're going to manage this $4 billion towers that we have next year for April and June. We are still evaluating what will be the best solution that Banco do Brasil will adopt to address these two perpetual bonds that have a window for call next year.

Unfortunately, the Credit Suisse episode got in the way. We were considering to tap this market and to test also this market this year. But undoubtedly, it is a market that is totally closed. Now we do accept suggestions. If you want to send me an e-mail and make a suggestion and explain your vision and how we could address it, it would be great. But what I can say publicly is that we are looking into this.

We are attentive and we will look for the best solution that will add value for the company. And we'll seek a solution that will maintain a relationship open with our creditors. The best win-win relationship for both parties. We are sensitive to that. So much so that we exercised the call recently, we knew of the importance for the borrower of this bond, but we also have to look at this from the standpoint of Banco do Brasil and our shareholders and what is best for the bank and shareholders. We're taking everything into consideration, and we are open to market suggestions.

Nicolas, regarding the 11% target, we had a target to be attained as of 2019. We haven't got a new public target. But at least this is the level that we have declared in terms of CET when we should not be far from market average. Regarding capital structure, for now, we don't have a public target, okay? Well, regarding capital structure, we know that compared with our peers, we are in a less leveraged position.

We have a CET level even greater than our peers, believe it or not. But looking forward, in the coming years, we also have a hybrid instrument of around BRL 7 billion. This has been publicly disclosed to the market. And we have a schedule of payments for that paying back the controlling shareholders. So all of these variables are being evaluated so that we can project what would be the best optimal capital structure for Banco do Brasil considering expectation of credit growth, expected reduction of interest rates, the possibility of getting funding in the market, exercising possibly the call or eventually resetting interest rates of perps.

So you can see I have a big homework to do that Tarciana gave me to evaluate this because time is short.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Our next question is from Carlos Gomez-Lopez from HSBC.

[Carlos Gomez-Lopez, analyst]

My question is about your growth outlook for the coming years. What do you believe would be the growth of Banco do Brasil for the next 3 to 4 years. And having said that, if you have a lower growth than the one you have now of 15%. Do you think that you could grow above that or not?

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

Carlos was with us since the first offering we did way back then, was still on the buy side. Carlos, I mean, this is a difficult question. Our strategy has been defined to...

[Carlos Gomez-Lopez, analyst]

Up to 2027, right?

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

Yes. But there are variables that throughout this period to 2027, will have to be well-managed. The federal government is designing a program aimed at renegotiating household debt and this gives room to increase in loans in the individuals portfolio. As the bond market resumes growth and allows for funding to large corporate, be it through private bonds. I would say that right now, it's very difficult for me to give you a growth rate for the long run, long run growth rate in our loan portfolio. But I would say that it's perfectly sustainable considering our capital structure and our funding base.

It would be good to -- it would be advisable to maintain something around 9% to 12%. Maybe within that range, we will be able to work with that without making any mistakes. Of course, we want to take advantage of the opportunities that the market will offer. But looking at the loan book as a whole, and also considering that we are a major player in terms of providing loans to agribusiness, we will probably be close to low 10s or close to 9, depending on the other lines.

[Carlos Gomez-Lopez, analyst]

So you're talking about capital, if you say 9% or 11%. So you would grow more on mortgage loans, too. So I think you be probably delivering more than the 40% you're delivering to the year.

[Unknown Executive]

Our commitment is for a payout of 40%. I'm not going to be committed to pay anything more than that. But once we are more profitable when compared to what is available for our investors to invest, I think it's -- it's worth keeping the money in-house because we can take very good care of it. Geovanne, I think we still have some regulatory homework to do in Brazil. So -- we have to deliver IFRS 9 until 2025. We are in an advanced phase of adaptation. But certainly, this may lead to some sort of capital use. And as Geovanne said before, BIS III Phase II that impacts -- has an impact on operating risk and this could lead to capital indicators -- could have an impact on risk indicators.

What I can tell you is that none of these moves are capable of removing our leverage capacity and also our capacity to fulfill our commitment to pay out 40% of dividends. And it will all depend on our execution discipline and certainly on the effect of all of these new regulatory demands.

[Carlos Gomez-Lopez, analyst]

Could you give me an initial estimate on the impact of the largest operating risk.

[Unknown Executive]

We are working with a range of around 100 bps.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Now moving towards the end of our conference call. Our last question will be from [ Felipe Navarro ] from Santander.

[Unknown Analyst]

Congratulations on your results. Banco do Brasil is one of the very few banks that discloses figures on credit card delinquency. This quarter, after several previous quarters, there was a drastic drop in NPL from credit cards. My question is, I mean, I would like to use the data and market intelligence from Banco do Brasil to help me understand what's happening with the industry. Could we say that this drop is structural? Or is part of the financial system or that was probably due to your well-done homework and also going forward, the credit card market, do you think it still requires caution, should we look forward and see this delinquency level coming down even further? That's it. I just want to get a better understanding of how the market behaves.

[Marco Geovanne da Silva, executive]

I think that Prince can give you some more color.

[Felipe Guimaraes Prince, executive]

We understand that this is a movement from Banco do Brasil alone. We looked at the initial vintages of 2022, and we saw a deterioration in credit card granting, particularly related to the open sea lines. There was our digital credit card that we call Ourocard Fácil. We made adjustments to the models back in the middle of last year, and that adjustment was progressive. So why do I think that we deliver a different situation when compared to the rest of the market.

Even if you look at figures on Banco do Brasil, I mean, to the credit market, delinquency in credit card continues to grow if you look at the overall market. But looking at Banco do Brasil's figures, we should see the peak in December. And from then on, we will reverse the curve starting in the first quarter, and that's what you can tell. If you look at our data, we are one of the only large banks that have a very detailed disclosure of these figures. So this is attributed to a strategy to control risk that client profile that was posting stronger deterioration indicators. But at the same time, we motivated the granting to our customer base that didn't use credit cards as much when compared to the average credit card use amongst our other clients, we try to foster the centralization of the invoices in the bank, we were very proactive.

We started by identifying the profile of clients. We evaluated their expenditures, their behavior and also all of that linked to risk and this was submitted to our negotiation desks in our branches in order for us to attract clients with better consumption profiles. And you even mentioned this drop in the first quarter. We don't call it a drop because seasonality plays a part here because we have Black Friday and the Christmas holidays.

The performance in terms of volume in the fourth quarter cannot be compared to any other quarter of the year. So we understand that there was a favorable performance in terms of the portfolio in the first quarter and this is attributed to a very well-defined strategy with a disciplined execution, which is being required by our CEO, Tarciana. And that's why we were able to deliver those numbers. But the market trend is quite different.

[Tarciana Gomes Medeiros, executive]

[ Navarro, ] I would just like to add a few more comments to what Felipe Prince said. We are looking at the behavioral patterns of our customers because we want to deliver a bank [reach] client. And this is a case of the bank. Not only we are careful enough so that the new vintages and the new product entries are such that a client that fits the profile for the product is suitable for the product, but also we look at the clients' demand because maybe that demand was for another credit line. So we just migrated the client to its adequate credit line according to its payment capacity or debt capacity.

This development of models that are more knowledgeable about clients is very helpful. Because it's important that we offer the right products to our clients based on their consumption patterns. And we also help them and guide them through the adequate caps on the credit card amount. And so this result stems from this very articulated work on the part of the bank. We did our homework, and we intend to keep going with that.

[Janaína Storti, executive]

Very well, we are ending the Q&A session. And to close, I'd like to turn the floor to our CEO, Tarciana, for her final statements.

[Tarciana Gomes Medeiros, executive]

Well, I'd like to thank everyone for your questions, thank you very much for your partnership for being close to us on a day-to-day. We will always be available to speak with you. To clear all your doubts so that our shares can have a fair price in the market. So count on us because we definitely count on you. Thank you very much, and I'll see you next time. Thank you.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]