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Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q4

[Operator]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the audio conference call of B3's Earnings Results for the fourth quarter of 2022. [Operator Instructions]

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded and broadcasted live via webcast. The replay will be available after the event is concluded.

I would now like to turn the conference over to Andre Milanez, B3's Chief Financial Corporate and Investor Relations Officer, who will be joined by Fernando Campos, Investor Relations Associate Director. Please, you may proceed.

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you, and welcome, everybody, to our [ fourth ] quarter results. First, a few highlights about the environment during that period. In Brazil, we still had a scenario with a very high level of interest rates. And the period that was influenced -- heavily influenced by the elections, both preelection and postelection period, which have impacted primarily our listed segment business.

So going quickly through some highlights. On the cash equities market, we closed the quarter with an ADTV of BRL 32 billion, an advance of more than 2% in relation to the fourth quarter of '21 and a significant increase in relation to the third quarter of '22, growing by almost 24%, which was propelled especially by the performance during October and November, where we had a lot of volatility associated with the election, as I mentioned before.

Another highlight in terms of the cash equities business is that we saw some decrease in margins during this period, which was primarily driven by a higher volume of options -- indices options exercised during the month of December. This is a more, let's say, impact given the specific situation of mix. And I think it's worth reinforcing here that there hasn't been any changes to our pricing schedule. The last quarter of '22 had also less trading days, which also impacted the revenues.

And talking about the listed derivatives segment, our ADV was BRL 4.5 million contracts which represented a reduction in relation to the fourth quarter, but it was pretty much in line with the volumes that we have seen during the third quarter.

I would like to call now Fernando to go through some other highlights of the other business segments.

[Fernando Tavares Campos, executive]

Thank you, Andre, and good morning, everyone. So I'll start with the OTC segment. The OTC segment benefits from a high interest rate scenario, and we had a solid performance during the quarter in this segment. We saw an increase of 33% against the fourth quarter of '21 in the outstanding amounts of Instruments and Treasury Direct, reflecting the efficiency of the strategy of revenue diversification of B3. In infrastructure for financing also impacted by the higher level of interest rates. We saw -- but here, we had a negative impact in the number of vehicles financed that decreased 3.6% versus fourth quarter '21.

And we had in technology and access, so I think it's worth mentioning the growth in the line of utilization of 13% against the fourth quarter '21, which usually grows with the fund industry in Brazil, mainly this year, the growth in our fixed income funds throughout the year.

Now moving a little bit for -- to move into the financial performance. In revenues, we saw a growth in gross revenue of almost 6% compared to the fourth quarter of '21. In equities, the revenue was 4% higher compared to the fourth quarter of '21, with the volumes reflecting a little bit of the pressure performance that Andre mentioned with a little above that we had in the fourth quarter of '21, that was partially offset by the lower margins.

In listed derivatives, we saw 7%, in line with the growth in volumes. In the listed market as a whole, as Andre mentioned, I think it's worth mentioning that in the third quarter of '22 that we had for less trading days in the fourth quarter, which impacted our revenues. In our OTC, we saw a growth of 16%, mainly as growth of the increase in interest rates, which impacts the flow more the number of registrations in the number -- in the outstanding balance of that line.

Infrastructure for financing, we saw a reduction of 3%, reflecting the harsh scenario for the automotive market. And in technology, data and service. In technology, we saw increase of 15% with highlighting -- the highlight here being the -- like I said, the increase in the number of funds and the annual correction of prices that are done by the inflation. In data, we saw an increase of 80% given the consolidation of Neoway without Neoway, the growth would be significant of 19%, mainly reflecting growth in market data.

Now I turn it back into Milanez to talk a little bit about expenses and other advances -- strategic advances that we had during the quarter.

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you, Fernando. Talking about the expenses, I think that you guys saw that there was some acceleration in our expenditure during the quarter. Overall, this is something that typically happens during the quarter. But I think during this quarter, we also -- as we pointed out in the release materials, some extra nonrecurring items. The personnel expenses, we had the impact, of course, of Neoway, which was not part of B3 Group in '21 -- and as I mentioned, nonrecurring expenses related to the termination of some employment contracts as part of an efficiency project that was conducted during the second half of '22.

This -- the impacts of that program have also affected the expense line with third-party services with costs associated with consultancy firm that helped us in carrying out this project. This was also affected by nonrecurring expenditure related to the acquisition of Neoway, fees of lawyers and advisers involved in the acquisition. And we have also seen a trend that we have already highlighted in other quarters where we are seeing much more investments in nature, expenses that were potentially capitalized being now recognized as expenses given the new dynamic and the costs involved in development of the those new initiatives.

Talking about the -- some other updates. Well, I think worth highlighting that during the fourth quarter, we have concluded the execution of our buyback program. As you know, we already announced a new buyback program for this year, for 2023, executed roughly BRL 3 billion in buybacks and ended up buying back almost 4% of our market during this program, which is quite a significant amount.

In relation to the acquisition of Neoway that we have announced at the end of last year, we are still waiting for final approval from the Securities Commission, which we expect to take place over the next few weeks. And of course, as soon as those are obtained, we will inform the market and by then start -- conclude the acquisition and start the integration project with Neurotech. Another acquisition that last year, that was concluded at the beginning of this year, a company called Datastock. We will now start the integration and ramp up business in connection with the financing unit.

Discussions and developments with our large trade block facility for large blocks has continued to advance. There are still some definitions that are pending in terms of discussions with the regulator, and we do expect those to be concluded and potentially to be able to launch our solution by the end of this first half or beginning of the second half.

And then finally, I think another point I would like to highlight was the launch of a new product in partnership with the National Treasury Secretary, which is called [indiscernible], which is a government bond designed specifically for the retail investor and could be -- that could be an interesting alternative for planning retirement and things like that. And also, we started to offer ETFs that distribute dividends during the first quarter of this year.

I'd now like to open the floor for questions and answers. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Tito Labarta with Goldman Sachs.

[Daer Labarta, analyst]

Andre, Fernando, my question, I guess, is on your EBITDA margin. I know you don't give guidance here, but I just want to think about as you're investing in the business and now you have kind of verticals with data services from Neoway and Neurotech. How should we think about that EBITDA margin I mean you're now at 70% this quarter. You've been well above that in the past, but maybe is this level that we're seeing now, is this more like the recurring level that we should think about going forward? How do you think these additional investments will impact margins from here?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Tito, I'll start here and Fernando, please jump in if you want to add anything. But well, I think what we saw in the fourth quarter was, as I mentioned, I think the reduction was, especially in this quarter had much more to do with the, let's say, behavior of the expenses with some extra nonrecurring items, which we do not expect to see them from happening again. As I mean, this was mainly [ as a result ] of an efficiency project that was conducted during the fourth quarter. We have very much concluded all the action plans that came as part of this project. So we start the year of '23, I would say, lighter in terms of the savings that were obtained as a result of that.

And I think, as you know, our margins are much more driven by the performance top line than in expenses. Having said that, as you probably know as well, those, let's say, new verticals, especially the data business does not have a margin of the same size as the one from the main business. Typically, margins for these segments are around 30% to 40%. This is currently the margin for Neurotech, and we hope that Neoway, we will get there over the course of the next year or so.

So I think what perhaps will happen at some point is that as this business become more and more relevant in terms of the overall composition of our revenues, we might have some reduction in the overall margin of the company as a result of that. But we also have revenues that are less, let's say, transaction in nature, more recurring in nature, less exposed to the cycle. So of course, that will also depend a lot on the performance of the core business, which, as you know, has a lot of potential to grow. So I think those are the things to be -- to take into consideration when you think about our margins. As I said, it's really difficult for us to give guidance on margins, especially because those are much more dependent on the performance of the top line, which -- where we had less control and influence rather than on the expense side.

On the side that we control, what I can tell you is that the fourth quarter is not something that you should take as a trend going forward.

[Daer Labarta, analyst]

Great. That's very helpful, Andre. I guess one follow-up, if I may. Just I guess, with Neoway and Neurotech, how do you -- how much of your business do you think will come from beta, like mid- to longer-term? I don't expect a specific number, but just kind of general ballpark like how big that could be, how significant, percent of revenues or EBITDA in the medium term?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

If you add all of the, let's say, data revenues that B3 already has today, including Neoway. And of course, that includes market data revenues, we are around roughly BRL 0.5 billion a year in revenues coming from data -- market data and also all the data solutions, and definitely, that composition, there is a lot of data revenues coming from the financing unit and also the core business, the capital markets business, but also, of course, coming from Neoway.

Our [ ambition ] is that to become a much more relevant business with revenues over BRL 1 billion in 3 years. That's our ambition here. That's also taken into account the acquisition of Neurotech and the ramp-up of the business, capturing all the service revenue synergies that we have mapped when we were discussing the acquisition of these two companies.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Pedro Leduc with Itau BBA.

[Pedro Leduc, analyst]

A little bit on pricing and cash market margin dynamics, please. There's a sequential drop, 15 bps or 0.15 bps, the same as year-over-year. And of course, it's explained a little bit by higher volumes of high-frequency trading or day trades. Wanted to get your brains a little bit on how we're seeing that for 2023 average margins on the cash market. If you see much more room for HFT penetration? Or if this lower volumes that we're seeing at least so far in the year, could [indiscernible] the price table to move up a little bit? Just wondering how we could get your help to perhaps model out this line pricing margins for cash market in 2023, thinking about the different mix and volume components.

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you for the question, Pedro. That's a tough one because we are now basically going to see margins, the margin behavior fluctuate in accordance with the mix of the product. I think we highlighted that special reduction because in our earnings -- because as you probably will notice, even though we saw weaker volumes in December, the margin reduced as well, which is not what you would expect because of the indices options exercise volumes that I mentioned.

So -- but I think if you take November and October, what you should expect typically is that the higher the volume, the lower the margin will be. If the -- if you -- if we expect or if we see lower volumes, margins will be slightly higher because that's the way the -- our pricing schedule is currently set up. It's really hard to predict particular events, such as the one that we see -- we saw in December. But I think perhaps the best way for you to think about that when modeling, the average behavior that you saw during the -- during last year as, let's say, an initial point for your projection going forward, especially because we are not envisaging or considering any major changes to our pricing schedule as the one we had a few years ago.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Kaio Da Prato with UBS Bank.

[Kaio Penso Da Prato, analyst]

On my side, I would also like to talk a little bit more on the listed trading fees, but more specifically talking a little bit more on the competition front. So with the recent news of potential interest of a new competitor, again, which is always a headwind for the stock. Then the start of the block trades possibly outside of B3 this year. I would like to understand a little bit more what's our view about this recent movement? What impacts you foresee? And if there is any plan of a potential review of the fee structure, again, especially the one [ charted ] in the listed segment, please?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you, Kaio. Well, this is something that we have already been discussing for quite some time. As you know, we already have competition in several segments of our business. We compete -- really compete with global markets, and we have always been discussing the possibility of a new entrant into the, I'd say, exchange arena here in Brazil. This is the second time we had an announcement like this. As you know, company has -- have been preparing itself for a more competitive environment. I think it's [indiscernible] to say what could be the potential implications of that project. I think it is a very, let's say, ambitious project. As you know, competing in trading is not easy, but let's say that the barriers of entry there are lower, but the competition on the clearance in our [indiscernible] is much, much, much tougher.

And it will definitely require a lot of investment and time to put that together with a good chance of taking longer than one might expect. But the company has been preparing for that. As you know, since the B3 was -- we have been turning this company more and more every time towards its customer needs of turning this company into a more client-centric organization, working very robust with roadmap of products to not to leave any open space that could be explored by a new entrant.

So what I can tell you is that they are not going to have an easy time if the project goes effectively ahead to compete with us. I think that hasn't anything -- there is no direct connection between that and the other discussion that you mentioned on large blocks. There you had a flexibility introduced by the regulator to potentially try to make -- to meet market demand in order to make a more efficient process for the trading of large blocks. We were already expecting that change and have been preparing ourselves with that with the development of our solution. And as I mentioned during the call, we are very advanced with that on the development of the platform.

We are still discussing some final details with the regulator in terms of what's going to be allowed and what's not going to be allowed in order to be able to get the approval for our platform and start operating. We might see other participants offering similar solutions, but we are very confident in our solution and the features that our solution is going to have.

[Kaio Penso Da Prato, analyst]

Okay. Final one, in terms of a potential review of the fee structure, is that -- is there any plan about that to do that again or not?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Look, I don't see any reasons for that to occur short-term. Of course, pricing is always a lever that you could use in a situation where you have a more, let's say, fierce competitive environment. But I don't see any reason for that to take place or to occur in the short-term.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Ian White with Autonomous Research.

[Ian White, analyst]

Two from me, please, both on costs. Firstly, can you set out for us how much of the cost base is for growth versus run the business-type expenditure? I know it's about a 70-30 mix in terms of your core business versus new initiatives. But is that the right split in terms of how to think about maintenance versus growth-related expense, please? And on the part that is growth related, how should we think about the quantity and timing of revenue benefits to flow through from that, please? Is there a, again, sort of target return or something like that, that you might be able to share with us to help us think about the yields essentially on that growth rate spend?

And just secondly, can you just talk us through, please, the linkage between inflation and cost growth for B3? What inflationary impact is already embedded into the cost guidance for 2023? And how will that change in future years, assuming inflation is in the below to mid-single-digit range as is currently expected within the market?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you very much for your question, Ian. I'll try to cover all the points, but please let me know if I missed anything. So I'll start with the last point that you mentioned. As you know, our cost base is almost fixed in nature, primarily comprised by personnel expenses and technology expenses. And a large portion of that is personnel, as you know. In Brazil, we have a [indiscernible], let's say, collective bargaining adjustment to salaries. Our base date for that is August and the adjustment that we had last year was almost 10%. So we are carrying a 10% increase in our salary base before any reductions that were obtained as a result of the project that I mentioned to the next year.

And then you have potentially the last quarter of this year influenced by the adjustment that we're going to have in '23, which is then more linked to the current year inflation projected. So that's the implication that we have, and that's why we tend to say that in our core business, our goal is to try to make that our expenses grow according to inflation or slightly above that, assuming, of course, that there is not a significant swing in the inflation rates because we do have that impact of carrying to the other -- to the following year, a lot of the inflation from the past year, given when the adjustment to our seller base is done.

In relation to the breakdown in our expenses between core business and other initiatives. I think the first, and this is something that as this business matures, we will probably review, that if you take all the expenses on the new initiatives, I think we need to separate there, and we try to give you that visibility that we have, I would say, almost half of those expenses that are represented by expenses of business that are already mature and they are either profitable or closing to get profitable. So that's the example of Neoway, and it's going to be the case with Neurotech. The company that we also acquired Portal de Documentos. So you almost have there a group of expenses that has already a similar level of revenue and where we should not see, let's say, significant growth or need of growth in terms of the cost base in order to keep growing revenues.

And then you have another group of initiatives that are either at a very early stage, such as the initiative that we have with digital assets or credit card receivables, insurance registration. Some of them already have some level of revenue, but they are in the early stages in the development and other initiatives which will not have a direct, let's say, connection in terms of having direct revenues associated. I'll give you an example, some of the educational initiatives towards the retail investor, which are relevant for the development of our core business but will not bring directly themselves revenues associated with those initiatives, but we will have also, of course, a benefit to the overall performance of the business.

So I think that's potentially a way -- a better way of looking into that. I think as this business that I mentioned, there are more mature progress we will probably treat them more as part of the, let's say, with a similar dynamic to our core business than the other, let's say, more initiatives in initial stages.

[Ian White, analyst]

That's very helpful. Can I just -- just one clarification on the salary inflation. Have I understood correctly that basically in 2023, embedded in your guidance, there's a sort of mid-single-digit uplift for salary costs that just kind of pegged to inflation at our August '22. And then I should be thinking basically prospectively assuming inflation comes down, that just kind of falls away by sort of a couple of percentage points or something like that in the future? Have I understood that dynamic correctly, please?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Yes. Well, no, I think you got it right. So I'll try to -- let's say that we are -- we were working with an inflation of 5%, an adjustment of 5% for this year, and we are already carrying an adjustment of 10% from last year. So overall, it's almost like a -- if we had three quarters of 10% and one quarter of 5%. Of course, if that fell below 5%, the overall adjustment would be lower. If it goes up, the other way around. And this -- and we are probably going to carry that 5% to next year as well, at least most of the following year.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from [ Antonio Reid ] with Bank of America.

[Unknown Analyst]

My question here goes again on cost, okay? So I'm just wondering if the investments that you made, the consulting firm that concluded its operations now in the fourth quarter, how should we think about structural changes here? Because you mentioned that they concluded what they should do here. Do you have an estimate of how much more efficient should you be following this project? And if this is already included in your guidance for the year?

And I know this is a tough one, but consider all these moving parts, not to mention it for margins because we are going to have more data revenues that have lower margins. We are having inflation. We have your project. On a consolidated basis, I know you also don't give a guidance, a formal guidance here. But considering all these moving parts, how do you see your EBITDA margin going forward?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you, Antonio. As I mentioned, we have already included in our guidances that were released at the end of last year, the impacts or the benefits of the project that we concluded during the fourth quarter. So this is already embedded in our guidances. As I already mentioned, and I'll take the opportunity here just to reinforce that those guidances do not include the numbers of Neurotech simply because the acquisition was not yet completed. And once we have that approval, we will shortly after potentially review our guidances to incorporate the figures from Neurotech.

Look, I think it's -- as you said, it's tough for us to predict the behavior of the margins. As I mentioned, in relation to what we control, which is where we have more influence, which is our cost base, we did an exercise last year. We started the year lighter and reducing the inflationary pressures over our cost base. As I mentioned, we had a 10% adjustment in August, which will carry most of that impact to this year. So we will keep doing a very disciplined way of spending our resources and we should not see the trend that we have seen during this fourth quarter, which was also polluted by some nonrecurring items taking place again.

Now in relation to the top line, I mean, it's really difficult, right? We work for a lot of time with -- operating with a margin below 70%, and when we saw that significant surge in volumes, our margins went all the way to 80%. And of course, once we have an acceleration, the margins were also retracting a little bit more. So I think margins -- margin behavior, which will be much more dependent on the performance of the top line, which is associated with external factors and a more favorable environment to reignite the interest on equities and accelerating our activity again. So perhaps those are the moving parts that you should take into consideration when thinking about what levels our margins could be taken into account the high level of operational leverage that our business has.

[Unknown Analyst]

All right. And just a follow-up. How should we think about further investments in clearing considering the [indiscernible] investment? Does it change your investment schedule?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

No. No, it doesn't change, Antonio. At this point, I think we -- as I said, we were already working with that possibility. Main difference now is that we have a name to that or more concrete project, but we have been working already with that possibility and preparing ourselves. So at this stage, I don't think that triggers any need for a significant change in our strategy. And therefore, in our investment needs.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Guillerme Guisseppe with JPMorgan.

[Unknown Analyst]

On our end, this is actually very quick. Just on data analytics. You made 3 acquisitions in the last 6 months, 1 year. The question is just if you expect to continue proactively looking for M&A in the segment? Or basically, the 3 of them is done, and we should see now a focus on maturing those 3 businesses or if you're still pursuing new offerings, new companies to acquire?

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you, Guillermo. No, I think in terms -- those were 2 big acquisitions for our standards. As I did mention, those were assets that we had mapped for quite some time. We have now a lot on our plate. The focus for this year is going to be to integrate those business to capture the revenue synergies that we have met when we were considering the acquisition of those companies. There is space also to try to capture some other synergies, tax synergies, et cetera. So this is going to be one of the key focus for this year and to develop and mature those business.

There's nothing significant or of a similar size in our radar, but that doesn't mean that we might not have other M&As taking place, but nothing at the size or the level of what those 2 companies were.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from the webcast, and it's from [indiscernible] with Citi. He asks, can you please elaborate about the tax disputes in light of recent news of possible changes to [indiscernible] procedures and possible changes to the collection of proceeds from the tax cases.

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you for your question, Kyle. I don't think that changes. I don't think, no. That does not change our review and the potential outcome of those discussions. We remain very confident in our cases. We -- with that change, we are basically back to where we were 2, 3 years ago, where every time you had a tie at the administrative level, the president of the section, which is a representative of the government of the IRS have the casting vote. With the [ extension ] of the casting vote more recently, we had a, I would say, a higher chance of having our cases resolved at the administrative instance since -- until now all the cases that we lost were -- we lost given the casting vote.

So the news of a casting vote coming back, of course, is not very, let's say, something to celebrate. It means that potentially, we will take slightly longer to have this matter resolved. But I don't think it changes the overall picture in relation to our cases.

[Operator]

That concludes today's question-and-answer session for today. I would like to invite Mr. Andre Milanez to proceed with his closing statements. Please, Andre.

[Andre Milanez, executive]

Thank you. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining our call, and I'll take the opportunity also to thank all the team for putting all these materials together. We remain at your disposal for any further questions. Thank you for your support, and have a nice day. Bye-bye.

[Operator]

That does conclude B3's audio conference for today. Thank you very much for your participation. Have a good afternoon, and thank you for using Chorus Call Brazil. You may disconnect your lines now.