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Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Regional's First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. We're joined today by Manuel Rivero Zambrano, Chief Executive Officer of Regional; Enrique Navarro Ramirez, Chief Financial Officer; and Alejandro Lobeira, Head of Strategy and Planning and Investor Relations. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.I will now hand the conference over to your speaker today, Manuel Rivero Zambrano. Thank you, and please go ahead.
Good morning, everyone. I hope you and your families in healthy and well. We're pleased with our first quarter performance, our loan portfolio consistently outpacing industry standards, and our profitability on a steady rise. Our strategic approach is capitalizing on Mexico's economic expansion, leveraging nearshoring advantages, a robust labor market, and favorable demographic conditions. These factors present an extinct opportunity for sustainable growth, enhancing operation efficiency, and driving profitability to new heights.Regional has experienced a significant surge in our loan portfolio accompanied by strategic optimization of our balance sheet achieved through a reduction in our securities investment portfolio. Simultaneously, our non-financial revenue is experienced a double-digit growth and our expense growth has slowed due to a successful investment in strategies that have enabled asset automation.Regional's quarterly earnings have continued to demonstrate robust growth. Our net income for the quarter reached MXN 1,615 million, showing solid growth of 36% year-on-year, expanding our ROE to 375 basis points to a year-on-year 22.2%. Regional has achieved a robust 12% year-on-year increase in loan growth and core deposits rising by 15% compared to the same quarter last year.Furthermore, our financial margin has expanded by 22% year-on-year and 2% quarter-over-quarter, due to the better funding mix and an improved loan mix driven by growth in retail banking segment. Notably, the preferred banking portfolio has grown 28% year-on-year, and our SME portfolio has expanded by 29% year-on-year, further boosting our NIM.Our cross-selling strategies have effectively enhanced our non-financial income, which has seen significant double-digit growth, showing a remarkable year-on-year increase of 18%. Our FX fees have risen by 23% year-on-year, trust by 46%, while our cards and merchant fees have grown by 21% year-on-year.Our efficiency ratio remains below the 40% threshold, standing at 38.2%, with a year-on-year decrease of 617 basis points and as 160 basis points on quarterly basis. This contraction in the efficiency ratio was driven by a solid growth in revenues in our expense management initiatives that has led to an increase of only 4% in operating expenses.Banregio continues consolidating its geographic footprint and improving its commercial capabilities. This quarter, we opened 2 new branches, emphasizing an ongoing focus on delivering a distinctive customer experience and maintaining robust profitability. Our target of the end of the year is to open 20 new branches.Also, Banregio loan growth has accelerated by 11% year-on-year increase. Core deposits have surged 16% and our efficiency ratio reaching 37.4%, demonstrating our commitment to operational excellence. Long growth has accelerated -- we remain committed to a strategy investment in key regions to capitalize on the opportunities arising from favorable economic dynamics and a robust labor markets, anticipating improved growth conditions in the near future driven by declining rates. We are intensifying efforts to broaden our sales force and enhance capabilities. This approach ensures we maintain a competitive edge and capture greater share of the market in the future.Banregio continues to uphold its long-lasting trajectory of delivering exceptional results, quality, and evidence by our leading industry NPS [ Suda ] 75. The bank continues to maintain exceptional asset quality with a non-performing loans ratio improving by 4 basis points year-on-year to 1.2%, accompanied by the cost of risk of 0.5%. We anticipate maintaining these levels as there are no indications of pressure on asset quality and our collection and [ originated ] processes continue to improve.As for Hey, both Hey Banco and Hey Pro have continued its operation process with the authorities coming up shortly for the readiness audit. We think we will be able to operate independently at the beginning of next year. Hey Banco maintains its unwavering commitment to achieving profitability since independent operations. Our ongoing efforts involve refining our loan portfolio and prioritizing formal individuals and businesses to improve its composition. These strategic initiatives have led to a more streamlined, yet more profitable client base, resulting in a notable reduction in both acquisition and operating costs.As stated in our previous quarter update, Hey Commercial emphasis for 2024 remains centered on small businesses and sole proprietors, a sector in which we have already established a robust portfolio of MXN 1,300 million. We intend to continue our expansion with its profitable segment as we measure a pace with a primary focus on maintaining superior asset quality and enhancing our business offerings not only through payroll services.Hey Banco's individual loan book expanded 20% year-on-year. It is important to mention that since 2024, we transferred digital mortgage platform built in Hey to Banregio as it fits much better into Banregio's balance sheet capabilities. This product will remain accessible to Hey clients through cross-selling strategies only. The financial margin of Hey was MXN 168 million and a net increase margin over the last 12 months was 7.6%.Hey Banco's efficiency ratio has decreased to 63.9%, reflecting a 20% improvement year-on-year and 7% quarter-on-quarter as a result of our successful strategies to operate more profitability without compromising customer experience.As of [ for ] Hey Banco's cost of risk stood at 8.2%, and at the end of this year, we expect the cost of risk to converge between 3.5% and 4%. This expected reduction is attributed to the ongoing and has-beens in our credit scoring models, better collecting strategies, and establishing acceptance policies.Our brand awareness strategies are yielding excellent results. Hey Media has reached 1.8 million followers across all platforms, with monthly interactions climbing to 5.1 million and social media reaching interactions to 49.4 million. This enables us to engage more effectively and communicate with our clients in a more ingenious way that traditional banks cannot.Hey Pro monthly billing was for MXN 9,047 million, mainly impacted by seasonality. The billing was affected by the last 4 days of the month that were nonworking days resulting in an estimated 12% negative impact on the figures of March.In conclusion, we continue to strengthen our technology operations and sales strategies to boost growth from small and large customers, differentiating our product and services offering depending on each segment needs.The growth outlook for this year, we remains promising and we already know certain increase in loan demand that will allow us to accelerate further across various sectors, including agro, manufacturing, logistics, and commerce. We're committed to continuously enhance our shareholder value by consistently delivering loan and earnings growth that not only meets but surpasses industry averages.Additionally, we are dedicated to maintaining our position as a profitable leader, demonstrating consistency throughout various economic cycles. Our Board has approved a 20% dividend payout on the upcoming General Assembly. As of last year, we will also propose a second installment in the fourth quarter, depending on credit demand. This strategy ensures we maintain the flexibility needed to navigate the anticipated growth in 2024 without jeopardizing our capitalization levels.We thank you for your continued trust and support as we continue developing and taking advantage of the favorable economic conditions, allowing us to achieve great profitability and deliver sustainable growth and value for our stakeholders. Thank you, and we appreciate any questions.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Ernesto Gabilondo.
Some very strong results ahead to your guidance and ahead competition, and this despite the temporary weak numbers at Hey, so congrats on your results. I have 3 questions from my side.On the first one, I would like to know what are your expectations for loan growth? When looking into it, it expanded 12% year-over-year, but it's coming at the low end of your guidance. So do you think this was explained by the stricter lending origination in the consumer portfolio or in Hey? Or are you seeing like, wholesale loans with some delays because of corporates waiting for the elections? Any color on this will be very helpful. And also, if you can give us like, some guidance on how you are seeing the loan growth per segment for the rest of the year.So I will elaborate my second question after your answer to the first question.
Yes, the loan growth is in the lower part of the range of 12% to 17% that we guided. And it's basically explained, as you mentioned, on the 2 extremes. One part is explained by the lower growth in Hey consumer lending, and the other part on the major portfolio, that is the wholesale growth. In the middle, small businesses both in Hey as well as in Banregio, and the rest of consumer and mortgage and auto are growing above 20%. We expect this to be maintained and what will move the projection or the growth will be the wholesale where we are -- we have a lot of pipeline of new loans, but also, we have seen a lot of amortizations, both mainly regular amortizations on the larger loans, as well as some anticipated payments. We maintain the range and we expect in the wholesale, if you see is between 10% and 11% right now, we expect this to move above 12%. And therefore, all the portfolio will grow above the 13%. We will maintain the small and auto a fast pace in the close to [ 20s ] and we expect to see consumer in general not only credit card again going back meetings.
And then for my second question is on Hey. We have seen the client base is at half from what you originally expected. I mean, at some point you guided 1 million clients. I will be worried if the retail segment was representative for Regional, but it is less than 8% of the loan book. And clearly the core business is the SMEs and medium companies. Having said that, we have seen that the recent strategy has been to implement stricter lending origination at Hey. You have been cleaning up the credit card loan book last year. You have been improving the credit scoring models. And also at the same time, you have been offering more competitive remuneration on deposits against other Fintechs.So do you think Nubank or other Fintechs have the secret sauce to attract clients and to turn around their business more rapidly? We understand, Hey is a more efficient way to attract retail clients. But how should we think about our Hey's strategy to compete against other Fintechs? Do you believe regulation and becoming a digital bank will level up the field for the industry? Any thoughts on this will be very helpful.
Yes. No, it's not regulation. I will start with that part. We have been regulated all the time. We have been -- we, I mean, Hey has been part of Banregio. In terms of regulation, part of the team is focused on the separation and the spin-off from Banco Regional. Then that explains part, but it's not in terms of growth. As you mentioned and as Manuel mentioned on the initial part, we are streamlining our customer base, focusing on more profitable customers with more products, and we have made more strict policy, the acceptance credit policy, then that has generated a lot of rejections from customers that came to Hey looking for a credit card or for a personal loan. What we are doing to improve that, we are improving and we are relaunching some of the segments with new models for both personal loans as well as credit cards in order to recover part of this attrition of customers that mainly came only for the loan.In terms of customers that came from for the whole suite of products, that's our main strategy. Customers that want to invest, but not only on the debit account. We have, as you know, the debit account, the investment, stocks, mutual funds, insurance. And on the lending side, we have auto loan, mortgage, credit card, and personal loans. Everything in one app, everything as a full suite.And the second part of the strategy, as Manuel mentioned, is we are very focused on businesses, all the new developments or the new functionality that we are building is focused on businesses, both sole proprietors as well as businesses, what we call in Spanish personas morales. And as you can see, an apology because we haven't disclosed before the loans from small businesses. We have around MXN 1.3 billion in small businesses loans. And that's the second part.And that doesn't add up a lot in number of customers. You can see in the previous page is 11,000 customers with MXN 1.3 billion in loans. And that's where the strategy is going. We are not focused anymore in the 1 million customers goal. It will happen, but will happen after we have a separated entity, an independent bank that we can resume. And once we are profitable, we can resume the marketing advertisement and that we feel comfortable with these new models that we are testing for the credit card and personal loans.
But just a follow-up on this, because we saw, for example, Hey's cost of risk continue to trend up during the quarter. You were mentioning last year that they were almost at the peak of the cost of risk. So how do we think about this cost of risk? We already saw the peak in this first quarter, or could continue to be higher in the next quarters? And when do you really think you can be profitable? And on top of this, again, we are seeing Fintechs remunerating their deposits between 15 to 17. You are losing some deposits to competition. You have to increase it from 10 to 13. So what will be the strategy considering what the Fintech is doing to be more competitive against them and, well, at the end to be most profitable at some point?
In terms of cost of risk, we're still cleaning the credit card portfolio. There are still 2 more months of this level of cost of risk. And then we will go to a lower one, the expected one that we have around 5%, 4%, between 4% and 5% in Hey. But in terms of the cost of funds, that is the other very important part on the margin that is impacting on the margin. We will decrease a little bit the rates as the central bank decrease the rates similar to the strategy of other Fintechs. We have maintained, even though we have less customers, you can see that we managed to recover most of the deposits that we lose in the -- during the fourth quarter -- third and fourth quarter of last year. Then we will maintain the rate higher than we have, but we will start decreasing to improve the margins.
And just for my last question is on your net income growth guidance. So for this quarter, you posted 36% earnings growth. So the double against your guidance and well above competitors. So considering this strong start of the year, can we see upside risk on your net income growth guidance for the year?
No. No, no, no. We believe that we can achieve the higher part of the range of the guidance. It's 12%, 16%, if I remember well, and we believe we can stay at that level. Considering that also the last year, the first quarter was not the strongest one, we would rather prefer to see at least the second quarter full results in order to change or maintain the guidance. It's too soon to change it just with one quarter.
No, no, understood. But we can expect some upside risk if we continue to see these type of trends, right?
Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
Our next question comes from Ricardo Buchpiguel.
I have 2 questions on my side. First, can you please share what was the bottom line for Hey in Q1? And you mentioned, you expect that Hey will start operating independently already in the beginning of next year. Should it also be profitable by Q1 of 2025?And for my second question, even though we saw NPL ratio quite stable during the quarter and write-offs under control, we noticed that the cost of risk was closer to the top range of the guidance. So I want you to understand the rationale behind that if it's related to higher cost of risk on Hey. And what we should expect in the coming quarters?
Ricardo, thanks. In terms of the general NPL ratio, as we mentioned and you can see in the presentation, for Banregio brand is 1.2%, and for Hey is 4.11%.What we expect further on -- and the cost of risk is 0.5% for Banregio and 8.22% in Hey. We expect, as I answered to Ernesto, after April and May, that will be the last part of the [ vintages ] that we are cleaning or collecting that will be a better reward. We were trying to collect. If we cannot collect, we will write-off during these 2 quarters. And then we will go back to 5%, 4% of cost of risk in Hey considering that there is mainly auto credit card and small businesses portfolio. In Banregio, we feel very comfortable with that level. Even if it's a little bit higher, it's a good cost of risk.About the question of profitability, we are very focused to make Hey profitable. I have already mentioned the question about the cost of funds, the cost of deposits that we increased as a reaction to other Fintechs that increased the cost of risk, the cost of funds, and also -- but we reduced a lot of expenses. We have reduced it almost to 0 advertising and some related to credit cards costs.
So I would imagine that the main drivers for achieving profitability would be the lower cost of risk and potentially better efficiency at the bank -- at Hey, right?
And better margins. Also, we are growing the small businesses portfolio that has a better margin than the auto portfolio or even the mortgage that we mentioned, mortgage platform will be maintained in Banco Regional, in Banregio, once the separation happens. That's the focus on these portfolios with higher rate will help also to improve the margins and furthermore the profitability. Will be the [ 4 ] lines. Better margins, less provisions, better cost in general.
Our next question comes from Carlos Gomez.
I wanted to ask you about your core business, SME lending. You mentioned that you are still seeing underlying demand around the 20%. Would you say that that demand has remained stable, has weakened a little bit like we have seen for credit in general to decrease in Mexico, given the high interest rates, or it has increased?And second, can you tell us about the current competitive environment in the segment compared to, let's say, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years ago? And I'm talking about competition from your peers, from Mifel, from Bajio, from Sabadell. How has this segment evolved in your view?
Thank you, Carlos. Definitely the interest rate at this rate that it's at right now, most of the -- and even the exchange rate that it's at right now, there is -- it hinders loan growth for sure. So obviously more infatuated in terms of the highest corporates and the -- than the small, obviously. But definitely we see that it is hindering loan growth there for sure. So we do expect that if the rates seed or continue to seed, we will see more demand along the year. And the other part of the equation is that normally we have more loan growth at the end of the year than in the beginning. So we do expect things to better up in terms of loan growth in themore so in the large companies. And we think that's a very positive -- I mean, we will see more positive trends there. But anyways, if you see how things are evolving, obviously industry investments take a long time and things are continue to evolve in a very positive manner. And we see very positive trends for the next coming years. And so we're confident that we will be able to achieve a better loan growth if not so in the short term in a normal pace, right? So we do see very favorable conditions. Entrepreneurs and large businesses are looking for more opportunities for sure. There's a lot of things going on. There's a very hot labor market, and that's producing a consumer growth demand, and wages are going up in a good way. And in that sense, things are very favorable for the economic cycle.
So I understand what you're saying. But so right now, what you're saying is that the current demand is constrained by forex and by rates. So if the rate was lower, of course, demand would be higher. But what is the direction? I mean, if things don't change, if rates remain around the level where they are, do you expect demand to go down from that 20% that you mentioned?
No, I wouldn't say down. I wouldn't say like cover within this range, yes. Because things are very [ indiscernible ] -- I mean, the economy is pretty dynamic right now at this point. And as I said, the global market is still, I mean, it favors consumer growth. And so in that sense, we do think there's a positive -- I mean, even that rates on seed, things will remain for sure at this pace.
And could you also remind us how much of your corporate book or total book is in foreign currency?
Of the total book, Carlos, it's around 4% that is in U.S. dollars.
Only 4%?
Yes. And important, we ask for the customer to prove that they have U.S. dollars income or we ask them for a cap.
And finally, for the competitive environment?
Well, yes, definitely. I mean, in many segments, I mean, the competitive, it has been the study, and I don't think there's a change initially. Definitely more so in deposits in terms of the digital offerings. That's -- I would say that's about it. I wouldn't say that there's much changed otherwise.
So there's competition in funding, competition for deposits, but you don't think that there's competition for lending? You do not see spreads for SMEs under pressure?
No. And I think that the -- I mean, those competitors will receive funding at this rate, obviously, but then they [ wouldn't ] need them in the future. So I think that's a short-term thing. But there's a long competition. I think it's -- I mean, it is, I wouldn't say fierce, obviously, as the United States. I mean, it's good. It's a fair competition. I wouldn't say it's much more than prior.
Banorte, I think it's a bit more active, for sure?
Yes. We've seen a little bit more of them.
Banorte, you said Banorte is more active.
Yes, yes. [ I believe it ] has always been very -- and something that I think is in a normal range. Sometimes they're much more active. Not at the moment.
And Banamex and Sabadell?
Well, I think Banamex, it is -- I mean, they have still their issues and we don't see them -- I mean, in some sense in corporate lending, we do see them at a very low-rate suffering. For example, in warehousing funding, but not in most industries. It's just like very focalizing on big tickets. And the other one you said, sorry?
Sabadell.
No, well, Sabadell, I think it's we -- I mean, not compared to what we've seen like 3 years, 4 years ago. I mean, they created the portfolio and they stayed at that pace and they're not very active like prior.
Our next question comes from [ Alejandro Lavin ].
So you obviously posted a very strong year-on-year growth for example, net income, about 30%. But if we look at it sequentially, that number is flattish, right? And I just noticed that if you maintain the same level of net income of around MXN 1,600 million for the rest of the year, you basically reach the lower end of your net income guidance, right? Around 12% to 13% growth, right? So first of all, first question, is this a fair assumption of your base case for the lower end of your guidance? And number two, what would change in this sequential growth that could take you to maybe the midpoint or even the higher end of your 2024 net income guidance?
Yes, there is always a part of seasonality. If you see the 4 quarters of 2023, always the last quarter and sometimes the third one, but especially the last quarter is the strongest one for 2 main reasons. One is all the transactions, transactionality, the fees that we receive for all what happens, Buen Fin and Christmas and a lot of these increasing in fees. But also, because the growth of the loans is gradually, then the growth of this quarter, you will see the income the next one and so on. And also, the demand for loans always is higher in the second half. We have received this question about the elections happening in Mexico, about if this is going to happen again in terms of the second half of the year to be stronger. We believe yes, there will be maintained the pace for the strong moment on the Mexico economy. And for, as I mentioned, we have seen a lot of pipelines for loans in our credit committees for the next month. Then that's the main reason we expect not 4 quarters of MXN 1.6 billion or MXN [ 1,600,000 ] million, but we expect better numbers in the next 3 quarters.
So it should improve sequentially just based on historical seasonality, right? And on top of that, if you get maybe some improved demand or a demand acceleration in the second half, which is possible, then that could get you maybe to a higher end of the range, and so on. Is that correct?
Yes.
Yes. And we also need to remember, Alejandro, we are continuing with our expansion plan. And as you remember, last year we opened 15, this year 20 branches. And it takes a period of time to mature and start generating more volumes. So if you add that seasonality that Enrique mentioned, and if you add this, you're expecting much better things for the next coming quarters, then to this first quarter, that was very good.
Exactly. And you get, like, the benefit of those investments in, what, around 6 months to 9 months, roughly?
Exactly.
Yes.
Our next question comes from [ Tejkiran Kannaluri ].
Congrats on a strong quarter again. I wanted to understand, there's a 50% YOY reduction in repurchase agreements on the balance sheet. Could you help me understand what cost of funds did this represent? I'm just trying to understand what portion of the improvement in NIM is down to, let's say, the repurchase agreements? And what percentage of the NIM improvement, let's say, is down to the improvement in spreads on loans and deposits?
Can you repeat the question? Sorry. Or maybe I will tell what I understood and you can tell me if I understood right. Do you want to understand the cost of funds for the repurchase agreements?
Yes, that's correct, yes.
Yes, it's around 10.5% average. In fact, it's 10.61% average in the last 3 months. That will be like against 11.25%.
So this 10--
94% of TA. It's around 10.5%, between 10.5% and 10.6%, the cost of funds.
Understood. And I heard a number you said 11.35%, I think that was for the first quarter of last year, is it? The corresponding number?
I don't have the number with me right now. We're monitoring month by number, but I don't remember exactly last quarter. Alejandro can send you the info. And as you can see, we reduced the amount both in repo as well as securities investment. And you are right, that's what is leading the improvement in the total NIM. That's why we disclosed the NIM of loans because NIM of loans is only the cost of funds from core deposits against the yes, total active rate of the portfolio. Then in the total NIM, it's included repos and securities investments. In the total loans NIM, no. It's not included. Yes.
Now, just to follow-up on this, in the previous calls, you had said that repo business is something you do because the clients are -- there's demand from clients for this business. They want to hold on to these repos as a source of investment. So when we see a 50% reduction, why are we on this business, is it because of active initiatives the company has taken, keeping net interest margins in mind, nudging clients towards stem deposits? Or has the demand for this product suddenly fallen down from clients?
Well, it's as we have mentioned before, as we have excess liquidity, we increased that business the last couple of years. Right now, we're starting reducing it. And that is mainly, as Enrique mentioned, why the NIM is improving. But it's not something that we're constantly looking after. As you all know, we prefer to loan the money. But at that moment, it was an opportunity.
One last question from my side, if I may. On Hey, I just want to understand if I got the timelines right of the current vintages. So I think you mentioned we might see the write-offs of the old vintages go on for next 2 quarters. And only after that, would you consider pressing the pedals on growth in Hey? Is that the right understanding?
It is 2 months. It's for the next quarter that we will do some of the last part of the write-offs of the vintages in credit card specifically. And yes, after that, we will start growing back in credit card and consumer lending and personal loans.
Our next question comes from Andres Soto.
Maybe a follow-up on the repo question. Are you guys -- after this substantial decrease in this line of business, are you planning to continue decreasing? Or are you going to stay there? What we can expect over the next few quarters for this?
We can expect to stay there. As Alejandro mentioned, we still maintain a lot of excess of liquidity in that repo business. That repo business, as we have seen in previous years, can be converted to core deposits, to time deposits specifically. As long as we maintain the rate to the customer, they accept to change. But right now, we feel comfortable in the level that they are, both the investment securities as well as the repo business.
And for those customers that are switching from repos to time deposits, what is the horizon that they are taking?
Usually in repo is between 7 days and 28 days. And in time deposits is 28 days to 90 days.
And if I may follow up, Enrique, when you look at the economics of this business, how does that compare? The cost of the repo that you mentioned is 10.6% compared to the cost of the time deposit plus the deposit let's say, insurance -- security -- deposit insurance fund.
It's more expensive, the time deposit. I am not talking about the small deposit because the repo business, we just recently moved the minimum from MXN 500,000 to MXN 1 million. And most of these repos are more than MXN 1 million of the time that became time deposits. And yes, that's one of the main reasons that the excess of liquidity we offer the customer, the repo, because doesn't have to pay the EPUB.
Correct. And on that perspective, what we can expect in terms of NIM on loans for Regional over the next few quarters?
To be maintained at the same level, as we have explained, we have improved the mix as the small and medium companies, mainly small companies' loans are growing faster in Banregio and in Hey, as well as auto loans, both in Banregio and Hey, are growing faster than the rest of the loans. Then we can improve the margin gradually. Then in general, we'll stay because the wholesale portfolio is larger, but gradually we can improve the NIM of loans.
The next question comes from Tito Labarta.
Just a follow-up, I guess, on your margin outlook, just given some of the moving trends you just kind of went over. Your NIM in the quarter 6.6% is running above the guidance that you gave for the year, 6.0% to 6.4%. You mentioned the loan NIM can maybe increase a little bit from a better mix with the less repos also benefiting your funding costs. Is there upside risk to that NIM guidance of 6.0% to 6.4% that you gave with fourth quarter results?
Yes, there is an upside risk for 2 reasons. One is the one that I already mentioned in an improvement or a change on the mix. But also, because in the guidance, we're expecting more reductions on the policy rate. That we only have seen one and we are not sure when will be the next one. We will expecting -- we were expecting the TA to close or the policy rate below 10%. And right now, we don't see that scenario anymore. Then it's the mix of both. Obviously, I will go all the way to the initial question. If the wholesale portfolio grows faster back as we have seen the demand there again, the mix will be balanced. That's why I prefer to say that will be maintained the total NIM of loans.
What is your expectation now for where rates will end this year
We haven't yet defined an expectation, but at least above 10%.
Our next question come from [ Anand Pavani ].
Given the volatility in the expectations around interest rate, how are you thinking about your interest rate hedges and overall interest rate exposure?
Sorry, if we understood, are you asking for the sensibility? Or the NIM in terms of the reduction of the policy rate?
Yes. So are you in any ways changing the approach to interest rate hedges given currently the path to interest rate is not sure at the moment.--
No, we are not changing.
[ indiscernible ]
Yes. Our policy has been for many years, we just cover for the upside when the TA is very low, and we only cover for mortgages or for long-term in general, long-term loans. But we don't hedge for the reduction of the TA. On the opposite way, we don't do any type of hedging because this uncertainty of when it's going to go down. What is happening, and that's part of our natural hedge, is that we have been increasing loans in mortgage, in auto, in leasing, and these loans are fixed rates. And when the TA goes down or the policy rate goes down, these loans will be maintained between 4 years in the auto and leasing up to 15 years in the mortgage. Then that acts as a natural hedge. And that's the only thing that we are doing. But buying swaps or something like that, interest rate swaps, no, we don't do that.
The second question is about Hey Banco. Given the high provisions that we have been doing for the last few quarters, can you give us some sense whether there was any kind of fraud in any loans that we originated through Hey?
Well, obviously there was some part of fraud on the credit card portfolio. But also, there was a lot of cost of risk per se of people not paying. The answer is yes, but up to what proportion, it was not a very big proportion. But yes, there is fraud. Also, it depends how do you define fraud. We just classify fraud as someone that is requesting loans in the name of other person, not people that request the loan knowing he's not going to pay, could be classified, but is not legally classified as a fraud.
Since there are no more questions, on behalf of our senior management, I would like to thank everyone for joining the call. We look forward to speaking with many of you in the coming weeks. If additional questions arise, please don't hesitate to reach out to Alejandro on our Investor Relations team. Thank you for your interest in Regional and have a good day.