Freelancer Ltd

ASX:FLN

Earnings Call Analysis

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q1

[Robert Barrie, executive]

Hello, and welcome to the Freelancer Limited first quarter of 2024 business update. My name is Robert Barrie, I'm Chief Executive and Chairman of the company. Here today, I have got Neil Katz, the Chief Financial Officer of the business. I've got Shaun McMeeken, who is the VP of Sales. I've got Adam Byrnes, who's the VP of Product & Growth, [ Andrew ] who runs enterprise and Drew Davis, who runs Loadshift as well as [ Colin ] on the operational side.As always, you may address questions to anyone in the room, including myself or any other executives in the Q&A session, which will happen at the end of the call. Moving into the business update. So we built a GMV of $227.1 million, down 23.8% on PCP. Freelancer's GMV was $31.5 million, effectively flat, down 2.2% on PCP. [ Escrow's ] GMV was $195.7 million, down 26.5% on PCP, but I will note that this is lapping a spike, as you'll see in a graph coming up. One year ago where we had some large lumpy transactions. And I do anticipate that in this quarter, coming up in the second quarter, we will have a spike up again as we are in the process of closing probably the biggest transaction in the history of Escrow, a $50 million transaction, which is done in 2 parts. So we will see that spike back again as we cover this business, is a lumpy business and it has large value transactions. Group net cash receipts were [ $32.2 million ], down 3.6% on PCP. Cash receipts of Freelance were $10.8 million, down 2% of PCP and cash receipts of Escrow were down 10% on PCP at $2.4 million. We had positive net operating cash flow of $1 million, continuing our positive operating cash flow in the last quarter and ended with cash and cash equivalents of [ $21.7 million ]. Moving into the second part segment. So we've really -- I would say, in the first quarter, laid the ground work for a fantastic record year across all 3 businesses we have. We've got some tremendous opportunities. And I think we'll start seeing that reflected in the numbers for all 3 businesses from the second quarter onwards the rest of the year as we kind of go through in a bit of detail. In the first quarter for the marketplace, we added 1.49 million users, new users and 211,000 new projects to the marketplace. The average project size was $253 down 6.9% on PCP. But you can see that number is actually trending up over time as more complexity sophistication comes into the projects in the marketplace. This average project size is measured across all projects we do. So we've got all the small projects at the [ field services ] end of the business and all the large projects of Loadshift end. So that kind of gives a true presentation of all the projects in the marketplace. Liquidity remains strong with average bid for project 39, [ downline ] PCP and average entries per contest now 322 up 10% on PCP 10.7. As the marketplace for whole we were in -- still maintain its nominal position as the largest and widest and deepest online crowd sourcing marketplace, distributed globally, everywhere with [ electricity and Internet ]. We have people -- I put a graph [ a session media ] earlier this week to show the depth and the breadth of that talent. And really evident in the contest platform, where you can post $10 contest on basically anything, you got hundreds of entries. Right through the high end where we have projects such as NASA, an example of our continuing $6 million [ unit in ] contest, which saw some phenomenal entries from top universities around the world, as well [indiscernible] which I'll talk about in a second. We've also, over the years, maintained a very, very high score in terms of quality. Our Trustpilot rating is 4.5 with 13,744 reviews, the highest of anyone in the industry by far, closest to match competitors only 3.4. So we've done great work over the years and to maintain a leading position in trust and quality. In 2024, our focus is to ensure we heavily increased client activation rates, turning initial positive experiences into [indiscernible] and lasting business relationships, through sticky [indiscernible] product offerings and effective cross-selling. This means moving the core experience from a transactional marketplace to a sticky essential of why they got the business service embedded in the workflows of all businesses, small and large. Our 4 major products are focuses for this year. Firstly, they say that you want to be a pain killer, not a vitamin. If you go to really in the start-up books that are out there or the business books out there, we'd all like to take vitamins every day, but we forget that if you got a pain, people will pay anything for a pain killer, because they need it now. But even better than that because you want it to be a narcotic you want the product to be so loved of that, it's actually a painful experience to stop using the products. And examples of that are, for example, Uber, if you stop using Uber, [indiscernible] a traditional taxi, and you have a bit of withdrawal trying to use [indiscernible] the way of doing things. Reinvesting the world of work in the AI revolution. We have made some phenomenal progress here. I will say -- you won't see the numbers in the first quarter, but you'll start seeing it from the second quarter onwards. The productivity gains we're getting from applying AI through our marketplace to get things done on the order of magnitude of 500 – 50x to 500x in terms of the productivity. We're starting to deploy AI to do the various functionalities that would normally be done by our operations team or our support team on the site. And it's -- we're really only limited by infrastructure at this point in time. So we're scaling up day by day by day and also in revenue-generating grows. And we're pretty excited about this. By the end of the year, the marketplace is going to be completely different products, thanks to AI and it's going to be incredibly easy to get work done on an [ engineering ] and ongoing basis, thanks to what we're doing here. We'll talk about that a little bit later on. We also want to rethink client acquisition in a world without Google. I think Google is going through some challenging periods right now. There were some comments in the last couple of weeks on social media that when you type in keywords into Google and you add the keyword [ before call ] in 2023, that the search results are dramatically different than higher quality. We've tried that ourselves across a variety of keywords. And the results are quite evident that the Google search index is being built with AI-generated content. And so I think that's going to cause a problem for Google in the future. The second problem they have with the paid advertising is that we [ take Turkey was it to Google and you got to get back 10 blue links ], now you get back 10 blue links and 69 ads. We think increasingly, more of that sort of work will go to a chat-based interface where there is no tolerance from the consumer for any bias in the chat result, let alone [indiscernible] ads. So we think Google is going to be increasingly challenged as a channel in terms of the ability to use it for customer acquisition. So we've been working on a variety of other channels in order to complement that. And I also -- you've got some pretty good success with using AI to build new sales-focused channels as opposed to some of the channels to -- so one of the focus is really to get away and really focus on things like organic acquisitions, AI acquisition and so forth, which we're doing quite well. And you'll see that actually in the acquisition results in a second. [indiscernible] -- I've talked about so many years getting from -- to a consistent design then to a delightful design and now we want to start [indiscernible] -- we're getting at the point where we can start right now. So turning from the pain killer [ product ] narcotic, so we did a -- created a lot of features around communication and collaboration in the first quarter. We had a number of observations that a significant number of our projects ran challenges to our abandonment due to institutional inconsistent communications from [ France ] to the clients, particularly when you've got a 1-on-1 scenario, one client and one freelancer and we're trying to make it easier for that relationship to become more enduring in addition to build teams of the base of that. We feel that the picture we've just launched in beta, it's rolling out now a little bit of scale, will lead to a big increase in engagement between the 2 parties, lead to reduction in project and management and failure rates and ultimately, will increase client engagement rate retention and GMV because the average project size will increase as a result. So that's rolling out to spec now. In terms of AI, we've built a phenomenal framework [indiscernible] -- we've got a phenomenal framework to kind of a managed service [indiscernible] layer, an operational layer and a sales layer on the platform. And we -- the start of scaling that with initial agents over the first quarter. That particular agent was focused on freelancers. We saw effectively a many hundredfold increase in terms of the product versus a human sales team. We've now moved that on to a client base. So -- we've only scaled it out to about 2,000 retails a day. But as of today, it might go a couple of thousands more. It's pretty phenomenal in the terms of what we can do. We've basically taken all the knowledge that we've had on the spike from 23 million jobs and 72 million freelances and we've basically codified that into a framework to provide effectively sales operations and managed services to the freelancers on the platform, and it's getting pretty phenomenal results. And when you compare that sort of side-by-side with what you get with the human-based agent, quality and the empathy hands down just surpasses what any human would ever be able to do. So we're pretty excited about where this goes. And this framework is also a management layer, which is both AI-powered and also ultimately escalated to our human agents. So we're getting big productivity increase there. Also, I will say that -- and the only thing AI will take in the jobs and create less jobs in the future, I think it's probably been misguided. We've clearly seen that the amount of productivity gains in the AI are such that, that creates a lot more work actually for humans to do in terms of escalations in addition to a whole team running prompts and a whole team running the framework for the AI. In addition, we produced a number of [indiscernible] features around personalization. So you'll see now – if you visit the site every day, as you go to the flows, such as project posting flows and other flows, you will see that there's a lot more that's been done in terms of helping you to get through those funnels in a very structured manner. Improving acquisitions through organic channels, we talked a bit about where we think the challenges are with Google and so forth. We -- we're doing quite a number of things here. What I will say is that our program profitability continues to improve. The 30-day profitability. It's up 18% on PCP from SEM and volumes up 6.7% on PCP. And that's all with cover 13.1% on PCP on the spend on the paid side of things. So we're eking out more profitability and more volume even though we're cutting spend on the [indiscernible] as we kind of win our [indiscernible] and more into other channels. We also -- the gross value in users with the first 4 weeks in registration also has caught up year-on-year for quite some time now, which sets the acquisition part of the funnel [ dating progress in terms of ] profitability despite the decreased accounts [indiscernible] depositing clients as a result, reduced marketing expense. So basically, what we are doing with the paid marketing channels is we're increasing the operability of the volume coming the spend as we move to other channels of time [indiscernible] and that's come up quite well. And that will flow through the products all the way through over the next coming quarters. We're also working hard on the U.S. design to get it to the win-award level. Some examples here of kind of where it's heading, but I won't spend much time on that. And overall, there is a tremendous amount of productivity in terms of the product features that are coming through on the collaborative side, allowing people to kind of work together, including things like time tracking. There's AI colored whiteboard, which is [indiscernible] deployed and so on. So we're pretty excited for the rest of the year. But I will say we are going to see some pretty phenomenal results out of freelance for the rest of the year from the second quarter onwards. And we've really been laying the groundwork for some time in [indiscernible]. -- and it's going to happen through the AI, having through collaborative tools, and it's going to happen with some work that we're doing, which probably I'll let Sean talk about the second around enterprise. So we've got some pretty interesting work we're doing now on the enterprise side. Probably the biggest I should mention is that our crowd is now being used to train one of the world's leading foundational AI models.This is a large-scale way [indiscernible] it's [indiscernible] into full integration and so forth. But effectively, what we're doing is we're doing the [indiscernible] and safety training for one of the largest tech companies in the world for their foundational model. We're doing it in partnership with the BPO that one of the work that didn't have access to the crowd to do so. The scale here is quite large, and our ability to source and marshal resources to the project is a perfect fit for our business. There's up 500,000 hours per month available work to do. In scaling up, we delivered over [indiscernible] day by sending up one notification that we have this work available because we have obviously a lot of freelancers waiting for work. And this work is relatively unskilled compared to traditional work on Freelancer because it's more playing with generative AI and kind of rating outputs in generative AI versus each other. This is stepping up quite significantly. I think every time we talk to them, they will add zeroes to the numbers in terms of where they want to go with this. But I think we'll start to see these numbers reflected in the second quarter numbers coming through. But we're pretty pleased with doing this work. Specifically, it requires freelancers in -- with certain leverage capabilities, in certain geographic locations around the world, and we excel at that. And we think that probably -- I mean the number of freelancers going to have working this is going to be probably in the many, many tens of thousands of freelancers real soon. And Andrew [indiscernible] this year in the room with me and Shaun have been really driving it. We think this is a very, very, very substantial amount of work for Freelancer and we're pretty excited to be working on that. And I think demonstrating what we can do and how quick and how easy it is for us to be able to deliver on this sort of work, really led itself to be able to go to the other foundational models and actually also apply [ crowd ] to those models. And I think we can actually also enhance the capability of the underlying training because we cannot just identify freelancers with the language skill and a geographic area, but we can have a chat in a very specific geographic area. So you can have nuances that are kind of creeping through in the open AI model where the people say, Nigerian [ wish because obviously the LHi we've done with Nigeria ]. We can work that out of the model by delivering language capabilities. They're in more specific locations and more specific nuances of a particular language that you actually need to train. So I think we can actually provide a more enhanced capability. But we're pretty excited about this. There's a lot of work here. We have some feelings of where that work has come from like why it is available in the market, but we're very happy to be in there in terms of working on that scale quite quickly [ very elite fact is we're up 4 acetate last page ]. Okay, we also submitted proposals for 3 companies looking to white label our marketplace to create private [ time ] for their clouds. This objective is to provide access to certified and better freelancers can help with ongoing projects, [ deal ] services to the clients, also getting better exposure and market share for [ the price ] and certifications. We also onboarded clients across automotive industrial equipment beverages. And we've got a new activation program that's going to working through a bit of those. We also signed an agreement with a leading biotech research company that serves more than 150 countries. And this activation program I mentioned year is rolling that out across oil and gas, in fact, one of the largest oil and gas companies in the world, FMCG, e-commerce, health care and technology. And also have done overnight actually, we've got another slide -- I don't know if there's anything else you want to add Shaun, that you want to highlight?

[Shaun McMeeken, executive]

Well, yes, we're also actively working with another technology company that's looking to shift 90% of the freelancers from one of our competitors across. So that's going to be -- that should be reflected in Q2.

[Robert Barrie, executive]

Good. On the global fleet, which is our field services operation, that's been growing strongly. We've had a major technology partner we worked with for a couple of years. But we're moving into full scale up of the privatization of that now. We delivered a 235% year-on-year increase in repair volumes through the platform. We're now in 48 cities in 5 countries. We've done 57,000 repairs using a completely freelance workforce. And I will say that this is pretty novel and first of its climbing in that we do -- the trained sourcing of candidates, the training of candidates. We do the repairs. We do the QA, we do the past distribution, and we did the warehousing entirely with the freelance model. And these 48 cities across 5 countries that we do the servicing in, we manage with 1 person here in the [ brand ] business. So one person manages hundreds and hundreds of [indiscernible]. It requires a fair bit of work and quite a fair bit of integration, but it demonstrates what we can do with the power of a freelance network that's pretty special. Now I'll bring up some of the next stuff we do, and I know we mentioned it some time to time, but the reason why I bring this work up is because it's really [indiscernible] now with the whole of U.S. government. And the sophistication and the complexity of the work we do here really sets us apart from our competitors in terms of our ability to deliver on a very, very, very sophisticated projects. I mean we had an innovation challenge that we completed in the first quarter, which is called Detect Track and remediate challenges small [indiscernible] -- and so what base that was is protecting in orbit debris between 1 and 10 millimeter particle size and figuring out how to detect track and remediate it. And if you look through here of the winners of this particular competition, I'll just get through some of this here, there's a solution here that required a constellation of optical imaging satellites in lower orbit. There was a solution here that sensors to detect plasma signatures of debris. There was a solution here that [indiscernible] employed a novel [indiscernible] radar technique or fleet of low-cost [ CubeSat ]. There's one that MIMO FMCW radar, the laser beam [indiscernible] array used here. There was not here with cameras on satellites, another with the passive detector system, et cetera, and so on. So I mean we are working on some of the most sophisticated [indiscernible] complex work you could think of. And we had people enter from Australia, United States, in Spain and so on for that. Also with the Australian Space Agency, we also work with them on the [indiscernible] challenge. And above that, we just released a bunch of submissions across -- basically how stress but Luna excavator Rover is going to be basically accomplished. So we're pleased to work with the Australian Space Agency on that. With a [indiscernible] vending challenge, which is how you do a refueling in orbit micro gravity with minimal loss of propellant. We have with us being announcing in Q2 we got submissions in the first quarter. And we've got a challenging gene editing and central nerve system consumers at which we paid a 1/4 of the prize money in the first quarter, and that will continue over the rest of the year. So that's pretty special. As an example of another large enterprise working with the Deloitte [ MyGigs ], we now have 146,000 hours going through on that platform. They brought in an activation team now, and we are currently negotiating with Europe to basically roll out in the later of this year. So that will be expanding as well. It's a slow burn, but we're getting that slowly. On to Escrow, you can see here from the graph, the long-term trend is intact with the last data point. We are likely to get a big spike in 2023 Q1, which means that we've got a large down number for this quarter, but effectively, the trend is intact. As I said in the preamble, we have a $50 million transaction we're closing right now in the second quarter. I believe that will come through in the second quarter, possibly early third quarter, but most likely there's 2 parts to the $6 million part and there is a $43 million part. So that will either all come through in Q2 or kind of partly Q2, partly Q3. But we do get spikes here as we do these big transactions to my point we're trying to avoid and make the growth a lot smoother by building a frictionless checkout system, which we're now integrating into the larger shopping cart in the world. We do the final touches on that. We've got some extra requirements that came across in terms of what we want to see there. But in the second quarter, we should be going to the beta. We set out a request for better customers. We've got our 1,000 responses back. So we're kind of sifting through that now, determining who the ideal shops are that we are going to integrate. What it does is it allows the shopping cart provider, which traditionally would sell retail products to sell yachts, to sell cars, to sell real estate to sell businesses -- any large value asset or complicated assets, you can now sell. And this people shopping cart provider does about $120 billion a year of volume. So it's a pretty major one. And while the – 4 most of the -- 55% of the volume goes through the 4 of the full payment methods, which is for the credit card and PayPal and so forth and the rest go through the alternative methods. We are the first payment that are being integrated in this particular platform, which is large value. So all the other payment methods work really well up to $10,000, above $10,000, they have nothing. They've got maybe a few credit cards that start maxing at around $20,000, $30,000. And then we're going to be the only large payment system in that particular platform. So I think it's particularly exciting. And we need to get it right. We need to make sure it's frictionless. Obviously, Escrow has [indiscernible] friction because you need to upload your ID documents. Credit cards also require you to upload your ID documents that you do at the time you set the credit card up. So because credit cards are quite entrenched and everyone's already set their ID and et cetera, that is the one thing we have to make sure that that set up flow in terms of submitting your ID documents is as streamlined as possible. The very positive thing about that is we have -- the 4 top shopping carts basically all wind up on a row. So we're working with #1 right now and #2, #3 and #4 are all in the pipeline, are basically right after that. So we will pretty much be reasonably well entrenched with the online shopping cart industry in the next couple of quarters, and we're pretty excited about that, the volumes [ I think dropped ] quite dramatically. It also allows a much easier integration of Escrow because if you want to get going and start from scratch, building a platform that use Escrow, you go to one of the shopping cart providers instead and just put that up and you'll have the payment method built in and off you go. So this is huge. This is where we're dedicating -- basically 90% of our product resources is just making this checkout solution as slick as possible. The other thing we've got a major [indiscernible] in the fire right now, and I spoke to this morning, it's a tender we submitted to a major Australian state authority related to the sale, secondhand automotive [indiscernible]. We made it through the first round, and we are basically waiting for the second round to be -- we've submitted everything to the second round, we're waiting for it to basically be awarded to someone. We've been told we have a strong [indiscernible]. It is a competitive, about [indiscernible]. So we'll see where that goes. But this alone will be the game changer for the business if we get it. It's a multibillion dollar a year opportunity, actually, $10 billion, low-low tens of billion dollars a year GMV opportunity, should we win that. But [indiscernible] as a competitive tender, we'll see where it goes. I think the standard a chance. We also tended a big noncommission in Q1. We've got a bunch of follow-ups from that, including a key partnership with the largest trade organization for automotive options in the U.S. And we're also in a competitive -- I wouldn't say the tender but competitive pitch to win over one of the largest automated marketplaces in the U.S. through integration for payment system. So we'll see where that goes in this year should [indiscernible] in the second quarter. We also partner with 4 new luxury watch marketplaces. The [indiscernible] industry remains a bit flat, that one of the reasons why the Escrow numbers are not amazing in a particular quarter. Again, lacking that spike we got in Q1, but we do think it's going to pick up in Q2 for a variety of reasons. And we think [indiscernible] funding will come back particularly in AI. And we're starting to see that. I had [indiscernible] it out for AI domain names, but they're growing quite strongly. We do think there'll be a bit of a rush in the next 12 months and to buy [indiscernible]. And we have a big presence at [indiscernible] in June. We also brought to the team August [indiscernible] into Escrow. He was a CommBank working across police to do with buying and before that Toyota for products related to [indiscernible]. So it's a good asset set of assets to be adding expertise to the Escrow team. [indiscernible] had a good quarter. It was up 69.7% on PCP as we increasingly monetize freight cost on the platform. The [indiscernible] post detection yet as we kind of kicked off people who are trying to [indiscernible]. broker on the site and not put the loads to the platform in terms of with payments, but the monetization increased quite strongly as we are doing that. [indiscernible] went up quite dramatically, went up 145% in the quarter, 84,000 quotes. Quotes per job went from 2.6 to 7.5%. So it basically is now a fully operating marketplace. So we've successfully completed the transition from a board to marketplace from here, it's really just focusing on the operating metrics of that marketplace. And the order loads were up 125%. So you can see the quotes are quite healthy. And the machinery actually increased as a percentage of the loads and that's where the available work is, that's more about 21% to about 26.7%. -- that's where we want to be in the machinery. We've also started taking on higher end project work with Loadshift. And we think starting from next quarter, we're going to see some pretty strong contributions to the numbers for that project work with everything else we're doing with Loadshift. So Loadshift is going very, very well. In terms of group profitability, we [indiscernible] costs in the quarter, 10% on PCP, and we made probably effect like a small operating loss in the quarter were able to turn around quite dramatically from the second quarter onwards. Positive volume operating cash flow of $1 million and cash and cash flows [ $2.7 million. ] So with that completed, I'll open it up to questions. You may address your questions in the group. Alex will [indiscernible] and myself. you can address them to anyone in the room. We've got the CFO. We've got the Head of Enterprise Sales; we've got the VP of Product & Growth, Head of Enterprise and 2 of the managers from Loadshift.

[Ron Shamgar, analyst]

How does take up of AI compare with the competitors?

[Robert Barrie, executive]

Okay. Ron asked how the take up of AI compared with competitors. I'm not sure maybe even have you seen what they committed to do with AI. I mean as far as I've seen that been doing the [indiscernible].

[Shaun McMeeken, executive]

Yes. So I should typically, this is probably 2 months old. I have a look specifically in the last few months, but about 2 months ago, I did an audit of both of our major competitors in the core marketplace. One of them had done, I guess, [indiscernible] considering the premiers of the job posting [ flow ] that we have. I [indiscernible] is substantially better. They didn't gather as much information from the client. They basically took a cynical sentence from the client and created a job from it, which led to a lot of AI [indiscernible]. The other thing that they've been doing both of them together is they either have AI-based landing pages, AI-based purposes, however, we are also doing something very similar. So I would say, currently, my assessment is that we seem to be ahead by [indiscernible].

[Robert Barrie, executive]

Yes. And certainly, what we talk with the AI frame line, I think it's quite groundbreaking on what we see.

[Shaun McMeeken, executive]

Yes. I haven't seen them do anything around anything significant, I should say, around using AI in the sales space and things like this.

[Robert Barrie, executive]

Yes. Any other questions from anyone in the audience, just feel free to put them on the chart and now isomers.

[Unknown Attendee]

Great as with the recent share buybacks of at driven well discretionary.

[Robert Barrie, executive]

They were expired options have been allocated to staff previously that is expired unexercised. So I will say all 3 businesses, I think, will show in the next couple of quarters. In summary, the questions come through, but I was going to say in summary, -- we've laid a lot of groundwork in the first quarter on the freelancer itself. I think the AI work we're doing is pretty phenomenal, and that's on -- it's multifaceted in terms of the AI we booked into the marketplace. I think it's opening up new sales channels for us in addition to helping with the flow and the management managed service layer. We've done doing a huge amount of work in collaborative tooling, which I think is going to quite penal for liking retention and with lifting GMV. And then we've got the work that we're doing with -- on the largest -- I think one of the largest national models in the world, if not the largest, doing the RLH training for that. And the work there is substantial and growing very strongly. Then we've got the entire shopping cart industry lined up so which we're really focusing on now getting up in the second quarter. And really, I think this will be game changing for the entire business in a big way. one of these shopping carts put to the entire volume of the entire business just by itself or hospitals. The tender we're waiting here on is competitive and with the state regulator and then we've got a competitive thing with one of the major automotive marketplaces in the U.S. And then on the Loadshift of things, we've got substantial project work coming through, which we're working on now. And we've got some major [ producing proves ] we're doing on [ Bellagios ] side, really on the monetization. But it is functioning now as a full marketplace. So that was very successfully done in terms of transition from the [ Borden ] board. So I think we're going to have a great to year, we're well set up. And I said that [ lump ] we've gotten -- we're cycling with Escrow year-on-year. We'll probably have a lump coming up in the -- most likely in the second quarter, if not the third quarter with a $50 million transaction going through. So that will continue to be lumpy. We're just trying to get those lines out by a checkout solution. That question?

[Unknown Attendee]

Yes. In these recorded presentations being published on the Investors section of the website. They invariably and a good picture that needs a wide audience of share prices to improve.

[Robert Barrie, executive]

Yes. We are building out, you've got charge of IR, and we are going to start more on the IR side, including recording of the quarterlies, including being some of that up online, doing more outreach running Investor Days and so forth, we're really going to start -- we're well through the holdover period now. We're going to do a little more outreach and longer work and some of the people just to. Okay. My call so close. Thank you for joining us, and I look forward to seeing you next quarter. Thank you.